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Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

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Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#61

Post by samspot »

esperent wrote: post #29
benrutter wrote: post #12

I think project bluefin has a similarish philosophy of being a "cloud first os", would definitely recommend checking it out: https://projectbluefin.io/ In all honesty though, there's a tonne of easy to recommend distros which don't need set up if you are a "normie" just wanting to get online: - Elementary - Mint - Ubuntu I think the real "secret sauce" for ChomeOS' success is basically big coorporate backing and bein…

I recently (two weeks ago) decided to finally switch from Windows to plain Ubuntu as a daily desktop. I'm well experienced with it from managing servers and have used it occasionally at a desktop in the past. I've had - and continue to have, a ton of minor and a few large problems. First, wifi. Apparently there's often problems with Intel killer 6e laptop cards, which required me to enter loads of console commands th…

It's good to know that "Linux is only free if your time is worthless" still holds true after all these years. From the way many talk, I honestly thought it might have changed.

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#62

Post by righthand »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #43
righthand wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't really recommend any single distro, can't recommend even a single desktop environment as good for most people. I can and do all the time: KDE Plasma + Debian Testing

KDE has its own problems, though they’ve been improving in recent years. Out of the box defaults still need some work for example, and settings can still be confusing and difficult to navigate for less technical individuals. It also still has some behaviors that aren’t found on other desktops that can put off switchers. The best DE for switchers would be one that brings as few surprises as possible and has defaults g…

Debian Testing packages are not too old. They are mostly very nearly bleeding edge, if not they’re a month or so behind. Ridiculous you would blindly say Debian Testing is outdated.

Debian Testing KDE Plasma version: 6.3.5-1 [0]

Arch Stable KDE Plasma version: 6.4.3-1 [1]

[0] https://packages.debian.org/trixie/plasma-desktop

[1] https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/plasma-desktop/

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#63

Post by righthand »

encom wrote: post #48
righthand wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't really recommend any single distro, can't recommend even a single desktop environment as good for most people. I can and do all the time: KDE Plasma + Debian Testing

Based. I run the same setup myself, but "testing" does mean testing, and while it usually works fine, you have to examine apt output and make sure it's sane, before you update your system.

I don’t have problems unless I run apt-dist-upgrade before a release cut (which I never do). Otherwise things have upgraded without pain or issue packages are held back until they’re ready for testing using apt-update/upgrade

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#64

Post by npteljes »

i80and wrote: post #25
righthand wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't really recommend any single distro, can't recommend even a single desktop environment as good for most people. I can and do all the time: KDE Plasma + Debian Testing

My experience is that distros with traditional package management can't be counted on to work over the long term without manual administrator intervention. Debian in particular would not be my first choice, or my second, for people who can't do their own system administration. (And this is a bit of the problem: nobody can agree on this stuff)

This touches on a larger problem that I think we tech people don't address as much as we should. That the modern big tech OS (Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS) has a huge advantage, which is that it's managed. Actively supported by the vendor, well after the purchase. That, and the heavy restriction of the user makes the computer orders of magnitude more stable.

With Linux this is not the way. The closest I can get is unattended-upgrades.

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#65

Post by rglullis »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #58
rglullis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, back in 2013 I was working at Deutsche Telekom in a project that was attempting to do "ChromeOS, but for Enterprise", built on top of Ubuntu and a heavily modified Firefox. We had a list of target devices to test against, but given the Ubuntu base it was pretty easy to get it running everywhere. All the office were based on open source systems. DT wanted to make money mostly on their data plans + device managem…

Why not charge more, then some funds could be sent upstream? Edit: answer below does not explain why price can’t be raised even higher.

Because the problem was any reduction in cost, and the status quo (Microsoft) was familiar and safe.

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#66

Post by lotharcable »

RebeccaTheDev wrote: post #45
lotharcable wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netbook boom happened and then people actually started trying to use them. That is why the netbook boom died. Because while they promised to make cheap Linux devices that anybody could use none of them actually delivered on it. In fact the whole thing was a fiasco. The classic Linux problem can be described as "9 clicks to shit". Meaning that a Linux desktop looks, on the initial viewing, as something that is actuall…

> Another problem is that programmers specialize at being good at programming, but things like documentation and UI testing are their own disciplines that are separate and distinct in a lot of meaningful ways. Even having decent UIs is a problem for many Linux apps and many are often deeply unpleasant to use day-to-day. This is one thing that has started to slowly get better in the last decade or so, but I can always…

The only desktop to have real meaningful large-ish/professional usability testing is Gnome. And that is only a couple times.

The first time was financed by Sun Microsystems in 2001 for Gnome 1.x and the result was Gnome 2.

The second time was financed by Novell around 2005 or so for their attempt to compete with Microsoft with Novell Linux Desktop. Unfortunately for them the real beneficiary of the improvements that results from their work was Canonical's Ubuntu.

Since then there have been numerous smaller/informal/ad-hoc attempts for both KDE and Gnome.

The results of all of this, of course, is that many "Linux users" believe that Gnome is the result of a conspiracy between IBM, Redhat, and maybe even Microsoft to "destroy the Linux desktop".

So that is fun.

The real success story, from what I can tell, is Blender.

They successfully revamped their user interface without a huge budget. Although it was still financed somewhat by some EU initiative, IIRC. They accomplished this by getting developers sat down next in a big room to actual 3D artists working together to produce a animated feature.

By physically placing users next to devs and having them work together, likely with a great deal of humility and openness, they managed to transform their UI into something that was actually decent.

This is probably a model that can be duplicated by other open source developers, although finding the right type of technical users not experienced in using said software willing to participate is going to always be a major challenge.

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#67

Post by zdragnar »

righthand wrote: post #18
zdragnar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The goal is banishing any and all questions of what to download, what desktop, what apps, packaging formats, software stores, user accounts, backing up, all of it: run the browser locally, sync the data – and only the data – to the cloud. ChromeOS is dead simple. So much so that my otherwise computer-illiterate wife can (and does) use it regularly. There's no way that I'd get her to use debian, though, unless I set…

Your computer illiterate wife is using a browser 90% of the time. The next machine you’ll be installing ChromeOS-clone Linux for your wife, she won’t be. It’ll be just as complex to install for her.

She's using a browser all the time. Using debian out of the box is still more complicated. The setup process for debian to get it back down to the bare bones simplicity of ChromeOS is much more time consuming for me.

Hence, as my original post was meant to convey, a ChromeOS clone is a better option to set up a laptop for her than just grabbing debian.

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#68

Post by lpzimm »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #60
esperent wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently (two weeks ago) decided to finally switch from Windows to plain Ubuntu as a daily desktop. I'm well experienced with it from managing servers and have used it occasionally at a desktop in the past. I've had - and continue to have, a ton of minor and a few large problems. First, wifi. Apparently there's often problems with Intel killer 6e laptop cards, which required me to enter loads of console commands th…

Hardware problems are a frequently understated barrier to switching, particularly for laptop users. Long time Linux users are generally selecting their machines with Linux compatibility in mind and so don’t see much of this, but the corpus of potential switchers haven’t, and it creates a lot of friction. It’s difficult to convince people to replace their perfectly good laptop with something else just for the sake of…

Also, it's pretty common to install linux to revive old laptops that might have outdated hardware.

Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS

#69

Post by acrophiliac »

tapoxi wrote: post #5

I think that's just EndlessOS: https://www.endlessglobal.com/foundation/access/operating-sy...

I like what EndlessOS is trying to do but it prioritizes the ability to be a complete OS that doesn't need an internet connection, whereas the article wants a browser-first OS (and assumes an internet connection). So aren't those kind of different use cases?
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