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Beyond Meat fights for survival

foodinstitute.com

471–480 of 645 posts

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything comes down to world population, which has quadrupled in a century, making the previously-sustainable now unsustainable. But even many of the climate catastrophists can't get away from the mentality of 'we still need growth at any cost'. And 'growth' is most easily obtained by creating more consumers and more workers.

> Everything comes down to world population This is nonsense. The consumptive, energy and material intensity of GDP, as well as GDP/capita, have varied greatly across time and countries. > even many of the climate catastrophists can't get away from the mentality of 'we still need growth at any cost' Degrowth is an extremist dead end. If an environmental movement falls for it, it should be ignored.

> This is nonsense. The consumptive, energy and material intensity of GDP, as well as GDP/capita, have varied greatly across time and countries.

It's not nonsense. In overwhelming majority of cases GDP is tied to energy consumption. We have not yet learned how to decouple it.

With renewables, there is faint hope, but the transition is slower than we would ideally like. It also remains to be seen what % can be decoupled by pure solar and wind (hydro is already tapped out, mostly).

> Degrowth is an extremist dead end. If an environmental movement falls for it, it should be ignored.

So is growth at any cost.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#472
post #68

It’s interesting that alternative meat consumption in the U.S. is struggling but taking off in Europe. One thing I noticed after moving to the UK: alternative milk is normalized here. Like, it’s so common to avoid milk that if you order coffee without specifying, you will be asked what kind of milk you want.

I live in the US and it's normalized here as well. Not sure where you lived but there's ample variety of dairy alternatives that are offered at grocery stores, coffee shops, etc.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe it's not healthy? Because of the processes food hysteria stuff?

Processed food concerns are hysterical is a unique take

Not at all. We're in the post-truth era. Anything you dislike can be denied and dismissed, and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. There's no objective truth, just what you prefer and therefore insist must be.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#474
post #68

It’s interesting that alternative meat consumption in the U.S. is struggling but taking off in Europe. One thing I noticed after moving to the UK: alternative milk is normalized here. Like, it’s so common to avoid milk that if you order coffee without specifying, you will be asked what kind of milk you want.

It's not all of the UK, you get asked in London, not in the countryside. Same in the Netherlands, you get asked in Amsterdam but not much outside. I guess San Francisco also has much more oatmilk latte's than rural villages

Obviously it depends on the venue. We visited many coffee shops on our recent trip through the Baltics and then across Ireland, and were always asked which of 6 "milk" options we wanted.

On the other hand, we were staying in larger cities, stopping in towns along major transit routes, and going to the "kind of coffee shops" where you would expect such a thing.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#475

I've been vegetarian for about 8 years and won't buy them and try to avoid them in restaurants because they're too meat-like. Unfortunately they've made good non-fake meat vegetarian burgers (black bean, wild rice, etc) harder to find. It's a situation of "You know that thing you don't eat, don't like, and don't have cravings for anymore? We made something that tastes exactly like it. You're going to love it!" I'm gl…

If you didn't like that, the CEO of impossible foods is now proposing a 50/50 burger (50% fake meat, 50% meat) - https://x.com/joelrunyon/status/1936183159491584134 https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/impossible-foods-growth-...

[deleted]

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Besides the reasons of sheer taste, another good reason is culture. Meaning, the preexisting meat-eating culture at a place. One of the reasons why vegan / vegetarian / etc options are often lacking is because there is no longstanding culture of eating those dishes at that certain place, and so, a vegan dish will likely come from a meat dish, minus the meat. But that dish is created around the meat, so without the me…

My experience has been that nobody gives a shit if you go to a restaurant in a group and order an explicitly vegetarian meal that isn't trying to emulate meat patties etc.

But they do care if you're trying to drag the entire friend group to a vegetarian restaurant.

In university, a group of friends once decided on heading out to dim sum for a celebration; one of them was Jewish, and ended up basically becoming a vegetarian for a day (since pork is all over the place in that cuisine). It was a source of lighthearted amusement for all and everyone was fully accommodating.

North American food culture doesn't depend on familiarity ("the same dish, just with the questionable thing substituted") at all. If anything, being a picky eater is discouraged and a sense of culinary adventure is praised. The service at QSRs has gotten slower in part because of pressure to reconfigure their basic ingredients into new, unfamiliar recipes. (Taco Bell is basically dedicated to this craft — and the greasy ground-beef slop doesn't even really look that different from the black bean slop anyway.)

Which is to say, it's not the meat eaters trying to impose culture on others. Vegetarians and vegans in my experience demonstrate an entirely unjustified persecution complex — the "they'll tell you" stereotype arises from the fact that people simply wouldn't care if it weren't explicitly brought up. That Simpson's episode with Lisa attempting vegetarianism was amusing, but also portrayed a world entirely alien to me.

Yes, North Americans eat a fair bit of meat on average. That's not at all the same thing as the dishes being "created around" the meat. We don't say "meatballs and spaghetti" (I even started automatically typing it the normal way around); substituting the meatballs for ground meat in the sauce is as natural as substituting a different shape of pasta.

Whole pieces of meat have a particular cachet, but this is because it's harder to hide a quality issue this way. Making a patty is missing the point. A hamburger is simply not highbrow cuisine. It's one culturally-established recipe, out of many, which is preferred in the context where it is mainly for convenience as finger food.

The proper vegetarian equivalent to a burger is a vegetarian wrap. (Or veggies on a bun, if the "bun form factor" is contextually important.) The proper vegetarian equivalent to a fancy meal with whole cuts of grilled meat is a fancy meal with artfully plated grilled vegetables.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#477
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the downvotes. Replacing foods that have been prepared in the same way for hundreds of years with foods treated with processes that have not yet been considered harmful is inherently risky. There are plenty of examples of unknown byproducts, isomers, and side effects that take years to flesh out.

[flagged]

The 70s/80s want their insult back. You can buy any quality you want in the US, when willing to pay for it.

But we still have to listen to complaints that the only choices available are Wonder, Lipton, and Budweiser. Not true—literally for decades now.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#478
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just want to end animal cruelty, but you miss the taste of meat Does that actually describe a commercially relevant segment of the population? Intuitively, having known a lot of vegetarians, I'd expect the people whose primary concern is animal cruelty to be specifically turned off by realistic fake meat.

Well, that's why that thesis seems to have failed. There has not been a huge cultural sea change driving meat eaters towards the products.

Has it failed?

I've been vegetarian since January 2011. Back then at restaurants I had to eat side dishes or go hungry, and while I spent months searching I couldn't find any kind of imitation meat that didn't make me wanna puke. But with the modern imitation meat, be it Beyond Meat, Moving Mountains, Nestlé's Garden Gourmet or Rügenwalder, that's not the case anymore.

Food is also a part of the culture, and German culture traditionally contains a lot of meat. Which may be why here in Germany, these products are hugely successful. Rügenwalder (which is a conventional meat factory) is now selling more imitation meat products than actual meat. Recently they even phased out their meat currywurst because the vegan currywurst was selling so much better.

While often times you can just remove meat from the recipe (e.g., Bratkartoffeln uses Speck just as seasoning, so you can replace it with a bit of soy sauce and MSG) or replace it with a simple alternative (e.g., Falafel-Döner), that doesn't work all the time. Sometimes imitation meat (whether store-bought methylcellulose based, or DIY marinated soy or seitan) is the best option.

Even though I had disliked imitation meat for over a decade, nowadays even I'll enjoy veggie currywurst.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#479
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just want to end animal cruelty, but you miss the taste of meat Does that actually describe a commercially relevant segment of the population? Intuitively, having known a lot of vegetarians, I'd expect the people whose primary concern is animal cruelty to be specifically turned off by realistic fake meat.

If you ask a bunch of meat eaters how they feel about animal cruelty, they'll get uncomfortable. Many will admit that they would like to avoid it but don't think it's practical. Look in particular at the kind who seek out organic, free range, and other (honestly, not very effective) ways to reduce suffering. I suspect the market research turned up a large contingent of such. Perhaps not sufficient to justify a whole…

Count me as a conflicted meat eater. It is terrible, but…delicious. I would be willing to switch to Impossible Foods (much better than Beyond Meat) for most of my hamburger consumption. Yet the price is such a premium that it is hard to justify. Yes, there are scaling problems, meat subsidies, etc which are hard challenges to overcome, but not surprising to me that most consumers are unwilling to switch to a novel product that is more expensive.

Re: Beyond Meat fights for survival

#480
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re consuming lots of dairy, and became vegetarian to avoid animal suffering, you can just as well eat meat. Not much of a difference ethically.

That's cool. But "avoiding animal suffering" isn't the only reason people stop eating meat. Sometimes the reason is as simple as: I just think meat is gross. No judgment on anyone else who eats it.

I added the if because of that. A lot of people aren’t aware what cows and chickens go through in industrial farming.
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