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US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

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Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#61

Post by msgodel »

motorest wrote: post #9
msgodel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proponents of liberal democracy should have sold it better.

> The proponents of liberal democracy should have sold it better. That sounds an awful lot like victim-blaming. What's worse is that your blend of comments somehow omits the fact that fascism is not being openly pushed onto people. Instead, fascists frame their intentions as granting them the authority to impose populist policies within the framework of liberal democracies. The problem is that, as Nazi Germany proved…

>victim-blaming.

That is a crazy way to phrase that. I think it reveals a lot about what democracy really means at a fundamental level.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#62

Post by cholantesh »

hollerith wrote: post #43
saubeidl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the other way around. The tear-down of the shared institutions proves that a communist revolution would've been the right move in hindsight.

At least you admit you want a communist revolution rather than using euphemisms like "aligning governmental policy with science and reason" or "programs informed by a root-cause analysis".

Yeah in that regard they are more honest than the cryptofascists on HN who yammer on about rational self-interest and the inviability of demographically heterogenous populations.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#63

Post by tumsfestival »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #59
hulitu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bolsonaro was the one who revived brazilian nationalism against all odds while staying in US. Funny how a lot of "nationalists" run to the mothership when something goes wrong.

We agree. I consider Bolsonaro a cowardly rat who betrayed everyone who ever supported him. He was in the USA while people were protesting in his name and literally going to jail for him. He's still the person who managed to revive brazilian nationalism against all odds and despite the hipocrisy. Surely that's not in dispute here?

I agree he's the person who managed to give rise to Brazilian fascism, yes. Unless you consider nationalism as the desire to regress back into a brutal dictatorship where dissenting voices get "disappeared", the media is heavily censored and controlled by the state and the government kowtows to American supremacy and interests.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#64

Post by nouuures »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #59
hulitu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bolsonaro was the one who revived brazilian nationalism against all odds while staying in US. Funny how a lot of "nationalists" run to the mothership when something goes wrong.

We agree. I consider Bolsonaro a cowardly rat who betrayed everyone who ever supported him. He was in the USA while people were protesting in his name and literally going to jail for him. He's still the person who managed to revive brazilian nationalism against all odds and despite the hipocrisy. Surely that's not in dispute here?

There's some flag waving and some "nationalistic" discourse but you can't take that at face value.

These "Brazilian nationalists" were marching to and saluting a Statue of Liberty replica that stands in front of a department store a few years back.

This isn't nationalism, just authoritarianism.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#65

Post by matheusmoreira »

tumsfestival wrote: post #63
matheusmoreira wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree. I consider Bolsonaro a cowardly rat who betrayed everyone who ever supported him. He was in the USA while people were protesting in his name and literally going to jail for him. He's still the person who managed to revive brazilian nationalism against all odds and despite the hipocrisy. Surely that's not in dispute here?

I agree he's the person who managed to give rise to Brazilian fascism, yes. Unless you consider nationalism as the desire to regress back into a brutal dictatorship where dissenting voices get "disappeared", the media is heavily censored and controlled by the state and the government kowtows to American supremacy and interests.

> regress back into a brutal dictatorship

Brazil is a dictatorship of the judiciary. Maybe it's not a "brutal" dictatorship but it is a dictatorship.

The unelected supreme court walked all over our elected congress just days ago. Only reason why they don't dissolve the brazilian congress is they need to maintain the illusion of democracy.

> where dissenting voices get "disappeared"

> the media is heavily censored and controlled by the state

Already reality in some form or other. It's just not happening quite so overtly as it would happen in a so called "brutal" dictatorship.

> the government kowtows to American supremacy and interests

Better than kowtowing to chinese supremacy and interests.

You cannot possibly think there's even the slightest possibility of Brazil failing to kowtow to someone, right? Right. So I'd rather it be someone I agree with, and it sure as hell isn't China and Russia.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#66

Post by matheusmoreira »

nouuures wrote: post #64
matheusmoreira wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree. I consider Bolsonaro a cowardly rat who betrayed everyone who ever supported him. He was in the USA while people were protesting in his name and literally going to jail for him. He's still the person who managed to revive brazilian nationalism against all odds and despite the hipocrisy. Surely that's not in dispute here?

There's some flag waving and some "nationalistic" discourse but you can't take that at face value. These "Brazilian nationalists" were marching to and saluting a Statue of Liberty replica that stands in front of a department store a few years back. This isn't nationalism, just authoritarianism.

Call it whatever you want. Maybe it was just hope. Blind hope that this mediocre country could become something different, something better. Bolsonaro's mandate left much to be desired but at least he wasn't yet another leftist communist.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#67

Post by makemakes »

cholantesh wrote: post #62
hollerith wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you admit you want a communist revolution rather than using euphemisms like "aligning governmental policy with science and reason" or "programs informed by a root-cause analysis".

Yeah in that regard they are more honest than the cryptofascists on HN who yammer on about rational self-interest and the inviability of demographically heterogenous populations.

I think what the person meant when he commented to you about Terry Davis is that you came accross as Terry had much control. It's schizophrenia; you can't just "take the meds" or have some sort of routine. So he was not putting words in your mouth. Own up to the "condensation".

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#68

Post by cholantesh »

makemakes wrote: post #67
cholantesh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah in that regard they are more honest than the cryptofascists on HN who yammer on about rational self-interest and the inviability of demographically heterogenous populations.

I think what the person meant when he commented to you about Terry Davis is that you came accross as Terry had much control. It's schizophrenia; you can't just "take the meds" or have some sort of routine. So he was not putting words in your mouth. Own up to the "condensation".

I think it's fucking weird to create a sock account to pore through a person's comment history and respond to one from eight years ago in a completely unrelated context.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#69

Post by bboygravity »

oporquinho94 wrote: post #15
bboygravity wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so you're saying the crackdown on Bolsonaro is fine and ethically 100 percent ok? Sounds like you know more about it than me. Can you explain?

If anything it’s way too mild. I meant the guy had a concrete plan to topple democracy, assassinate other leaders and bring back dictatorship. People like this should be thrown into prison for the rest of their lives.

How is Brasil right now not a dictatorship led by the supreme court though?

I'm not saying Bolsonaro is any good. Just saying Brasil is cooked either way and I don't get how anybody can take sides. It's like chosing between catshit or dogshit.

Re: US revokes visas of Brazilian judges after crack down on ex-president Bolsonaro

#70

Post by matheusmoreira »

throw0101d wrote: post #30
libertine wrote: post #2

It's challenging to comprehend this administration's "Strong with the weak, weak with the strong" approach to geopolitics. What's the end game here?

> What's the end game here? You assume that there is a long-term strategy: why do you think there is one? What evidence do you have that Trump cares about anything more than the current day's headlines and whatever whims take his fancy in a particular moment?

Brazilian embassies have commented that Trump, the USA and the world in general are interested in the Amazon's natural resources. I read similar articles about Musk's interest in our lithium mines when his public spat with the brazilian supreme court started.

I don't know to what extent that is true but I don't doubt it.

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