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Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#101

Post by michaelochurch »

tazzy531 wrote: post #72
offer_today wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had seen your earlier comments and asked Googlers how hard they thought it was to change projects. They said they hadn't ever encountered another company that made it easier to change project than Google does, and wanted to know if you had encountered such a company.

Just for some context. I started a couple months after this former Googler and our work backgrounds prior to Google are pretty similar. In that time, I started out on an underappreciated starter project, did a hackathon for Hangout, filed some patents for that work, did 20% work for an yet to be announced project, and now building out a completely new yet to be announced product. Google is a place that really allows…

Much of the issues with this former Googler is that he may have had some good/interesting ideas but he failed at garnering support.

I had widespread engineering support, actually. The problem was that (a) the people managing that product didn't understand the importance of quality in content, and (b) they were under obscene deadlines (which almost certainly wasn;'t their fault).

What really kicked me in the shins was when an executive, pissed off that people on his team agreed with what I was saying being the right way to go, threatened to damage my Perf ratings. My manager promised to protect me (he promised to "peg" me to 3.3-3.4, which is decent) and didn't deliver. After that, I started looking for transfer opportunities, because I'd caught my manager in a few lies but that was a big one, and I just couldn't trust my manager after that.

It turned out to be easier to get a job outside of the company, so I did.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#102

Post by michaelochurch »

sequoia wrote: post #37
michaelochurch wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have time to respond to this ad hominem smear. Yes, there was some blowback related to my attempt to save a failing product. I learned a lesson and moved on. I'm not anti-Google. I want the OP to have a great Google experience and to do that he needs to negotiate hard on project allocation.

As a random HN user with no connection to Google who has seen what happens when you comment on stories about Google here (it's a shit storm), might I humbly suggest that you consider not commenting on stories about Google? It seems to always turn into The Michaelochurch Show when you do. Not saying your opinions aren't valid, but I think your contributions re: google are unfortunately not useful because they inevitab…

See, I have absolutely no objection when people speak positively of their Google experiences. A lot of people have good Google experiences, and they should. I didn't. I had a shitty one.

What I find ridiculous is that any time I say something about Google, people leap into ad hominem attacks without even reading what I have to say.

You know what I did to piss these people off? Absolutely nothing. I've never met most of them. I'm surprised they even give a shit about me or what I have to say.

It's never the powerful people getting indicted who crush whistleblowers most with the most fervor. It's other peons who want to stick their fingers in their ears and say, "nanananan-I-can't-hear-youuuuu!" in the face of depressing news.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#103

Post by packetslave »

tonfa wrote: post #55
noone_er2 wrote: post #8

can you please post the way you prepared for technical interview. Just what you think can help someone who is preparing for it. what kind of questions they asked ? any thing to watch out for..

The Steve Yegge blog post.

This is the post tonfa@ refers to: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...

I believe some recruiters actually send it (or a modified version) to candidates who ask how to prepare. I'd also recommend the book "Algorithms for Interviews"

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#104

Post by sAasdasfd »

michaelochurch wrote: post #101
tazzy531 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for some context. I started a couple months after this former Googler and our work backgrounds prior to Google are pretty similar. In that time, I started out on an underappreciated starter project, did a hackathon for Hangout, filed some patents for that work, did 20% work for an yet to be announced project, and now building out a completely new yet to be announced product. Google is a place that really allows…

Much of the issues with this former Googler is that he may have had some good/interesting ideas but he failed at garnering support. I had widespread engineering support, actually. The problem was that (a) the people managing that product didn't understand the importance of quality in content, and (b) they were under obscene deadlines (which almost certainly wasn;'t their fault). What really kicked me in the shins was…

So what are you doing nowadays, anyway?

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#105

Post by whichdan »

tytso wrote: post #33

I work at Google, and I think it's great. Keep in mind that there are many, many different projects and groups at Google, and so the explicit set of things that you might work on will vary a lot. However, people can also transfer between projects after a year or two, so there is also plenty of opportunities to find cool work that you are passionate about. As far as the "cog in a big machine" that people have talked a…

We need more of these posts and less about "weight management and free lunch."

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#106

Post by rachelbythebay »

sadga wrote: post #93
rachelbythebay wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to lengths to not give an actual judgement here, and you come back at me personally. Awesome job. Again, do not rely on that which was to judge that which is. Do your homework and don't assume things are the same.

How long have cletus, nostrademons, and mdwelsh worked at Google?

I have no idea who they are in real life, so I can't say.

The deleted comment was not written by any of them.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#107

Post by vagrant »

michaelochurch wrote: post #102
sequoia wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a random HN user with no connection to Google who has seen what happens when you comment on stories about Google here (it's a shit storm), might I humbly suggest that you consider not commenting on stories about Google? It seems to always turn into The Michaelochurch Show when you do. Not saying your opinions aren't valid, but I think your contributions re: google are unfortunately not useful because they inevitab…

See, I have absolutely no objection when people speak positively of their Google experiences. A lot of people have good Google experiences, and they should. I didn't. I had a shitty one. What I find ridiculous is that any time I say something about Google, people leap into ad hominem attacks without even reading what I have to say. You know what I did to piss these people off? Absolutely nothing. I've never met most…

Maybe it has something to do with the way you say it. Maybe you meant to say, "I had a shitty experience at Google", but you accidentally typed, "most of the work is shitty legacy maintenance". Maybe you meant to say that you were not satisfied to start out with the other Nooglers in intro jobs and prove yourself by working your way up, but instead you said that most people start out in shitty jobs and never escape.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#108

Post by daave »

MaysonL wrote: post #80
waterlesscloud wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he should sit out Google discussions. He had the experience he had. Others have the experiences they have. We're all capable of assessing his reports for ourselves. I might add we're also all capable of assessing the responses of Googlers to his reports for ourselves, and those responses don't always speak well of Google.

And we've almost all seen what's happened to Gmail, Google Reader, Google Labs and 20% time.

Mayson, can you be more specific? What has happened to them?

Gmail: I can't think of anything negative that's happened to Gmail in recent times (unless you didn't like the UI redesign - there are certainly mixed opinions on that), and certainly the performance and uptake of Gmail has only improved.

Google Reader: Not much new happening, but it's still running. Are you referring to the changes in the sharing model? Whichever sharing model was better, surely you can agree that having one unified sharing experience across Google produces results in a more streamlined product, and at least this was a step in the right direction.

Google Labs: Was closed down, yes. I still don't understand how this relates to the parent post. My thoughts on closing down labs: Labs was supposed to be a way to get ideas out there in the wild before turning them into a fully-supported core product. This was great for the engineers who had built these things (they got to see them used), and the early-adopters who tried Labs products. However, as time goes on and nobody's doing any development work on a particular thing in Labs anymore, there is still an operational cost to other engineers at the company who have to keep the thing up and running. Since it's a 'Google' product, the brand image is at stake, so we can't just let them wither. So I think it's reasonable to decide to have each labs product either shut down or integrated into a core (supported) product. Perhaps it would have been better to chuck all the old labs and start again, with a published policy that things in labs will either be fully supported or completely gone 1 year after launch (or something). The removal of labs is a signal that there's more red tape around launching new products than there used to be, but I think that's inevitable as a company grows, and more than some engineer's weekend is on the line if a lunch goes badly.

20% Time: Still as strong as ever, from what I can tell. About half the engineers I know have a 20% project, and there's nobody who doesn't have one who wishes they could have one. Most of the time if people don't have a 20% project it's only because they find their core job interesting and diverting enough that they don't have a desire to split their time with a side-project. Despite what some people have claimed on HN, your manager can't deny you from having a 20% project if you want one.

(I work for Google, but not on any of the products mentioned above, and I (willfully) don't have a 20% project. These are my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer.)

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#109

Post by michaelochurch »

vagrant wrote: post #107
michaelochurch wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I have absolutely no objection when people speak positively of their Google experiences. A lot of people have good Google experiences, and they should. I didn't. I had a shitty one. What I find ridiculous is that any time I say something about Google, people leap into ad hominem attacks without even reading what I have to say. You know what I did to piss these people off? Absolutely nothing. I've never met most…

Maybe it has something to do with the way you say it. Maybe you meant to say, "I had a shitty experience at Google", but you accidentally typed, "most of the work is shitty legacy maintenance". Maybe you meant to say that you were not satisfied to start out with the other Nooglers in intro jobs and prove yourself by working your way up, but instead you said that most people start out in shitty jobs and never escape.

What I've observed is that most people at Google are working on shitty legacy maintenance.

I was in New York, which is generally considered to be slightly above other satellites on the project-allocation heap but far below Mountain View, because that's where all the players are. Most people I knew were on uninspiring work, although there were exceptions, but you generally had to be Senior SWE or higher before you were even considered eligible for the good projects (and even some people at Sr. got shafted).

Google has a palpable "Real Googler Line". Above it, you're free to transfer and work as you wish. If you want to change teams, just decide to do it. Hell, Steve Yegge quit his project in public. Below it, you have manager-as-SPOF and one-assigned-project... banking without the upside. When I was there, the RGL was moving upward to somewhere between Senior and Staff.

I don't know why you have a chip on your shoulder against me. I never did anything to you.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#110

Post by michaelochurch »

sAasdasfd wrote: post #104
michaelochurch wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the issues with this former Googler is that he may have had some good/interesting ideas but he failed at garnering support. I had widespread engineering support, actually. The problem was that (a) the people managing that product didn't understand the importance of quality in content, and (b) they were under obscene deadlines (which almost certainly wasn;'t their fault). What really kicked me in the shins was…

So what are you doing nowadays, anyway?

I stopped telling people where I work after Google. (Someone from Google tried to fuck up my next job, and Google refused to investigate. That's the main reason I hate Google's management. If they'd done their professional duty and investigated and fired the rat bastard, I'd have some respect for them.) But I'm doing well. Working on a side project to release this card game (Ambition) into the wild. The game rules are here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S7lsZKzHuuhoTb2Wj_L3zrhH...
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