Can someone please explain why we still have chargebacks in 2025? Don't accept cards without 3DS, problem solved. If not, why not? Are some important consumer segments still stuck with cards that don't have it?
Chargebacks aren't just for stolen credit cards, but also fraudulent merchants.
If I buy a physical good with a credit card, and the merchant either never sends me anything, or sends me an empty box and ignores my emails, well, that's a use-case for chargebacks. 3DS doesn't help with that.
Can someone please explain why we still have chargebacks in 2025? Don't accept cards without 3DS, problem solved. If not, why not? Are some important consumer segments still stuck with cards that don't have it?
Chargeback is not just for when your card is stolen. It’s also for e.g. when you never received your order, or your order is substantially different from what’s promised. It’s basically a last resort customer service option.
Can someone please explain why we still have chargebacks in 2025? Don't accept cards without 3DS, problem solved. If not, why not? Are some important consumer segments still stuck with cards that don't have it?
Chargebacks aren't just for stolen credit cards, but also fraudulent merchants. If I buy a physical good with a credit card, and the merchant either never sends me anything, or sends me an empty box and ignores my emails, well, that's a use-case for chargebacks. 3DS doesn't help with that.
Also for merchants that are just too dysfunctional to do the right thing. A while back, I ordered a phone online from Best Buy, and they shipped me a different model from what I ordered. I contacted their customer service, who told me to mail the phone back for a refund. I did so, and then they mailed it right back to me with a note saying they couldn't accept the return because I'd sent them a different item from the one I ordered. (No shit: that's why I needed to return it!) They didn't have fraudulent intent, I'm sure; one hand just didn't know what the other was doing. A chargeback resolved that situation, and I'm very glad I had the option.
> And above all else, we have a working democracy and not an oppressive regime? This whole debate often feels very disconnected and overblown in Germany. Well as you can see from the US currently, a country that is now free and democratic, might not continue to do so in the future. But once you've given up the ability to use cash because you didn't need it then, how are you going to get it back when you do need it?
Not a single western democracy has really turned yet, so I’m not convinced this is imminent danger. Besides, I’m not advocating for the abolishment of cash, but against dramatic claims of an evil scheme to control and spy on citizens. That’s a right-wing narrative in Germany, but nonsense nonetheless.
Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, Brazil, Chile, Argentina -- most within living memory.
Hell even France, everyone's just lucky that de Gaulle wasn't much into dictatorship.
I'll never understand what is these payment processors' problem with adult content. If someone wants to sell something and someone else wants to buy something, it should be nobody else's business to police it as long as two parties are settled. That's why I want to see crypto take over and get rid of the middleman and regulators.
The only viable end-game in scale for crypto is what happens in China. I am not sure if I want that.
sounds like the fix is counter activism to remove the leverage these interest groups have
The fix is legislation that ensures that payment processors aren't allowed to extra-legally moderate transactions based on "I don't like it". They need to be forced to process all legal transactions. Because these entities are nearly irreplaceable and are the cornerstone of many consumer industries, it seems like a reasonable compromise to me. Just pushing back is neither guaranteed to succeed nor last for any seriou…
The problem comes from "legal transactions".
The Pornhub problem came from going after the payment processors for facilitating supposedly illegal transactions--namely, underage porn. The crusaders (in every direction) keep looking for ways to undermine the protections (Section 230 in this case) and all too often the government doesn't fight back.
As for keeping it in the family games--we still have "obscenity" on the books and such games fall afoul of it. I find the concept of "obscenity" bonkers amongst consenting adults.
I think the biggest issue here is that somewhere down the line we gave payment processors the responsibility of policing for crime and terrorism. Our governments and regulators punish those institutions for "not doing enough" to prevent such things from happening. You might think I'm defending the multibillion company but here comes the catch: all of this is expensive so when you are doing something funky even though…
>we gave payment processors the responsibility of policing for crime and terrorism Maybe is time to do a reboot of the economy, what about everyone goes to the bank and withdraw all their money, and when everybody has his money, we put the money back in the bank? Would be funny to see how banks would react :)
That’s literally impossible. There’s not enough cash in the system for that.
> there's really nothing puritan about American business culture. [...] utterly amoral. What? Puritanism is not about some kind of blanket purity to be recognized or expressed from any angle, perspective or religion. And in American business is both extreme and extremely selective. It's also very much about appearances and image projected. You have to accept a difference between anybody's personal values (in so far a…
You're talking about a culture that freely and enthusiastically sold opiates for decades. If they're cracking down on porn, it's because porn is costing them money, probably because people are disputing charges.
The history of the US and "adult materials" goes so much further than potential disputed credit card charges.