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Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

worksonmymachine.substack.com

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Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#131

Post by chamomeal »

I don’t mean to be a dick, but stuff like this

> With enough AI assistants building enough single-purpose tools, every problem becomes shallow. Every weird edge case already has seventeen solutions. Every 2am frustration has been felt, solved, and uploaded.

> We're not drowning in software. We're wading in it. And the water's warm

Just sounds like GPT style writing. I’m not saying this blog is all written by GPT, but it sounds like it is. I wonder if those of us who are constantly exposed to AI writing are starting to adopt some of that signature fluffy, use-a-lot-of-words-without-saying-much kinda style.

Life imitates art. Does intelligence imitate artificial intelligence?? Or maybe there’s more AI written content out there than I’m willing to imagine.

(Those snippets are from another post in this blog)

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#132

Post by trallnag »

tronicjester wrote: post #77

>we dont have a word for it yet I call it 'Orchestratic Development'. Edit: Seriously, down voted twice when just commenting on an article? God I hate this arrogant shithole.

Check out image boards like 4chan or more localized boards like Kohlchan for Germany. No votes, no accounts

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#133

Post by intended »

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

I promise everyone one thing - there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

A lot of what is “working” in the article is closer to “jugaad”/prototyping.

Something the author acknowledges in their opening- it’s a way to prototype and get something off the ground.

Technically debt will matter for those products that get off the ground.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#134

Post by stillsut »

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

> Just keep it away from me

I'm reminded of teaching bootcamp software engineering, when every day #1 we go through simple git workflows and it seems very intimidating to students and they don't understand the value. Which fair enough because git has a steep learning curve and you need to use it practically to start picking it up.

I think this might be analogous to the shift going on with ai-generated and agent-generated coding, where you're introducing an unfamiliar tool with a steep learning curve, and many people haven't seen the why? for its value.

Anyways, I'm 150 commits into a vibe coding project that still standing strong, if you're curious as to how this can work, you can see all the prompts and the solutions in this handy markdown I've created: https://github.com/sutt/agro/blob/master/docs/dev-summary-v1...

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#135

Post by tempodox »

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

It does sound horrible. No more getting in the flow, no more thinking about anything, no more understanding anything. Just touch it with a ten-foot pole every few hours, then get distracted again.

I guess if all you do is write React To-Do apps all day, it might even work for a bit.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#136

Post by lordnacho »

Avicebron wrote: post #130
lordnacho wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I ended up paying for Claude max was that I started on the cheap plan, it went well, then it wanted more money, and I paid because things were going well. Then it ran out of money again, and I gave it even more money. I'm in the low 4 figures a year now, and it's worth it. For a day's pay each year, I've got a junior dev who is super fast, makes good suggestions, and makes working code.

> For a day's pay each year For anyone trying to back of the napkin at $1000 as 4-figures per year, averaged as a day salary, the baseline salary where this makes sense is about ~$260,000/yr? Is that about right lordnacho?

Yeah I thought that was a reasonable number in the ballpark. I mean, it probably makes sense to pay a lot more for it. A grand is probably well within the range where you shouldn't care about it, even if you only get a basic salary and it's a terrible year with no bonus.

And that's not saying AI tools are the real deal, either. It can be a lot less than a fully self driving dev and still be worth a significant fraction of an entry level dev.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#137

Post by tempodox »

Benjammer wrote: post #80
bloppe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An I the only one who has to constantly tell Claude and Gemini to stop making edits to my codebase because they keep messing things up and breaking the build like ten times in a row, duplicating logic everywhere, etc? I keep hearing about how impressive agents are. I wish they could automate me out of my job faster

Are you paying for the higher end models? Do you have proper system prompts and guidance in place for proper prompt engineering? Have you started to practice any auxiliary forms of context engineering? This isn't a magic code genie, it's a very complicated and very powerful new tool that you need to practice using over time in order to get good results from.

That's the beauty of the hype: Anyone who cannot replicate it, is “holding it wrong”.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#138

Post by wiremine »

I've been experimenting with model-based development lately, and this resonated strongly with me.

The section "What Even Is Programming Anymore?" hit on a lot of the thoughts and feels I've been going through. I'm using all my 25+ years of experience and CS training, but it's _not_ programming per se.

I feel like we're entering an era where we're piloting a set of tools, not hand crafting code. I think a lot of people (who love crafting) will be leaving the industry in the next 5 years, for better or worse. We'll still need to craft things by hand, but we're opening some doors to new methodologies.

And, right now, those methodologies are being discovered, and most of us are pretty bad at them. But that doesn't mean they're not going to be part of the industry.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#139

Post by QuantumGood »

Benjammer wrote: post #80
bloppe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An I the only one who has to constantly tell Claude and Gemini to stop making edits to my codebase because they keep messing things up and breaking the build like ten times in a row, duplicating logic everywhere, etc? I keep hearing about how impressive agents are. I wish they could automate me out of my job faster

Are you paying for the higher end models? Do you have proper system prompts and guidance in place for proper prompt engineering? Have you started to practice any auxiliary forms of context engineering? This isn't a magic code genie, it's a very complicated and very powerful new tool that you need to practice using over time in order to get good results from.

   > it's a very complicated and very powerful new tool that you need to practice using over time in order to get good results from.
Of course this is and would be expected to be true. Yet adoption of this mindset has been orders of magnitude slower than the increase in AI features and capabilities.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#140

Post by ikerino »

stefan_ wrote: post #128
ikerino wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: Junior devs are going to be the ones who "know how to build with AI" better than current seniors. They are entering the job market with sensibilities for a higher-level of abstraction. They will be the first generation of devs that went through high-school + college building with AI.

Where did they learn sensibility for higher-level of abstraction? AI is the opposite, it will do what you prompt and never stop to tell you its a terrible idea, you will have to learn yourself all the way down into the details that the big picture it chose for you was faulty from the start. Convert some convoluted bash script to run on Windows because thats what the office people run? Get strapped in for the AI Power…

How is that different than how any self-taught programmer learns? Dive into a too-big idea, try to make it work and learn from that experience.

Repeat that a few hundred times and you'll have some strong intuitions and sensibilities.

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