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Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

worksonmymachine.substack.com

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Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#121

Post by jon-wood »

lubujackson wrote: post #25
zwnow wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are relaxing and the AI is coding? Neat! Way to replace yourself, hope you won't cry after your job once it is gone.

What you miss is the constant need to refine and understand the bigger picture. AI makes everyone a lead architect. A non-coder can't do this or will definitely get lost in the weeds eventually.

It doesn’t make everyone a lead architect, it just makes everyone think they’re a lead architect. What makes people a lead architect is a decade or two of experience in designing software and learning what works and doesn’t.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#122

Post by sansseriff »

There's a weird insecurity I've noticed cropping up. I want to design the codebase 'my way'. I want to decide on the fundamental data structures. But there's this worry that my preferred architecture is not massively better than whatever the machine comes up with. So by insisting on 'my way' I'm robbing everyone productivity.

I know most true programmers will vouch for me and my need to understand. But clients and project managers and bosses? Are they really gonna keep accepting a refrain like this from their engineers?

"either it gets done in a day and I understand none of it, or it gets done in a month and I fully understand it and like it"

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#123

Post by accrual »

Quitschquat wrote: post #35
Flatcircle wrote: post #22

My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet. Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents) But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is. It's just a tool. Smart, clever…

Google doesn’t have to change search. It already returns AI generated crap before anything useful.

I like the way DuckDuckGo does it - it offers a button to generate a response if you want to, but it doesn't shove it down your throat.

It's handy when I just need the quick syntax of a command I rarely need, etc.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#124

Post by esafak »

bloppe wrote: post #62
lordnacho wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also can't not swim with the tide. If you drove a horse-buggy 100 years ago, it was probably worth your while to keep your eye on whether motor-cars went anywhere. I was super skeptical about a year ago. Copilot was making nice predictions, that was it. This agent stuff is truly impressive.

An I the only one who has to constantly tell Claude and Gemini to stop making edits to my codebase because they keep messing things up and breaking the build like ten times in a row, duplicating logic everywhere, etc? I keep hearing about how impressive agents are. I wish they could automate me out of my job faster

Create and point them to an agent.md file http://agent.md/

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#126

Post by dingnuts »

vitaflo wrote: post #114
karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

>I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. You will most likely get your wish but not in the way you want. In a few years when this is fully matured there will be little reason to hire devs with their inflated salaries (especially in the US) when all you need is someone with some technical know-how and a keen eye on how to work with AI agents. There will be plenty of those people all over the globe who…

yes yes the chainsaw made lumberjacks obsolete

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#127

Post by csomar »

bloppe wrote: post #62
lordnacho wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also can't not swim with the tide. If you drove a horse-buggy 100 years ago, it was probably worth your while to keep your eye on whether motor-cars went anywhere. I was super skeptical about a year ago. Copilot was making nice predictions, that was it. This agent stuff is truly impressive.

An I the only one who has to constantly tell Claude and Gemini to stop making edits to my codebase because they keep messing things up and breaking the build like ten times in a row, duplicating logic everywhere, etc? I keep hearing about how impressive agents are. I wish they could automate me out of my job faster

They need "context engineering" which what I'll describe best as "railing" them in. If you give them a bit of a loose space, they'll massacre your code base. You can use their freedom for exploration but not for implementation.

In essence, you have to do the "engineering" part of the app and they can write the code pretty fast for you. They can help you in the engineering part, but you still need to be able to weigh in whatever crap they recommend and adjust accordingly.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#128

Post by stefan_ »

ikerino wrote: post #78
lordnacho wrote: post #15

I'm loving the new programming. I don't know where it goes either, but I like it for now. I'm actually producing code right this moment, where I would normally just relax and do something else. Instead, I'm relaxing and coding. It's great for a senior guy who has been in the business for a long time. Most of my edits nowadays are tedious. If I look at the code and decide I used the wrong pattern originally, I have to…

Hot take: Junior devs are going to be the ones who "know how to build with AI" better than current seniors. They are entering the job market with sensibilities for a higher-level of abstraction. They will be the first generation of devs that went through high-school + college building with AI.

Where did they learn sensibility for higher-level of abstraction? AI is the opposite, it will do what you prompt and never stop to tell you its a terrible idea, you will have to learn yourself all the way down into the details that the big picture it chose for you was faulty from the start. Convert some convoluted bash script to run on Windows because thats what the office people run? Get strapped in for the AI PowerShell ride of your life.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#129

Post by esafak »

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

Imagine a future where creating software is about the designing the UX, overseeing the architecture and quality assurance. Implementation is farmed out.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#130

Post by Avicebron »

lordnacho wrote: post #107
dingnuts wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

guy 1: I put money in the slot machine everyone says wins all the time and I lose you: HAVE YOU PUT MORE TOKENS IN???? ARE YOU PUTTING THEM IN THE EXPENSIVE MACHINES??? super compelling argument /s if you want to provide working examples of "prompt engineering" or "context engineering" please do but "just keep paying until the behavior is impressive" isn't winning me as a customer it's like putting out a demo program…

The way I ended up paying for Claude max was that I started on the cheap plan, it went well, then it wanted more money, and I paid because things were going well. Then it ran out of money again, and I gave it even more money. I'm in the low 4 figures a year now, and it's worth it. For a day's pay each year, I've got a junior dev who is super fast, makes good suggestions, and makes working code.

> For a day's pay each year

For anyone trying to back of the napkin at $1000 as 4-figures per year, averaged as a day salary, the baseline salary where this makes sense is about ~$260,000/yr? Is that about right lordnacho?

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