Nobody knows how to build with AI yet • Hacker News Board

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#41

Post by logicchains » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:46 PM UTC

djeastm wrote: post #19

logicchains wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how the AI is used; there's a huge difference in productivity between a structured workflow with repeated automated feedback to the AI, and just ad-hoc prompting. For instance, Gemini 2.5 coding up a spec-compliant HTTP2.0 server in two weeks: https://outervationai.substack.com/p/building-a-100-llm-writ... . 15k lines of code and 30k lines of tests; no human coder could produce something like that so fa…

Would that application not exist in the training data already?

The are around three Golang HTTP2.0 servers on Github, but it wasn't just regurgitating the application from memory, as if it was then it would have been mostly correct first try, and it wouldn't have needed to spend 80%+ of the development time in a code-compile-test cycle of fixing bugs identified by integration tests and spec conformance tests.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:46 PM UTC

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

[deleted]

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#43

Post by rafaelmn » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #33

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

But you also can't not swim with the tide. If you drove a horse-buggy 100 years ago, it was probably worth your while to keep your eye on whether motor-cars went anywhere. I was super skeptical about a year ago. Copilot was making nice predictions, that was it. This agent stuff is truly impressive.

More like people telling us there will be no more professional drivers on the road in 5-10 years 10 years ago. Agents are like lane assist, not even up to the current self driving levels.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#44

Post by jayd16 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

Flatcircle wrote: post #22

My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet. Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents) But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is. It's just a tool. Smart, clever…

Unlike peak google, this reduces signal to noise and obfuscates the source data its pulling against.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#45

Post by maqnius » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

Flatcircle wrote: post #22

My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet. Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents) But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is. It's just a tool. Smart, clever…

I agree that people are using it for things they would've googled, but I doubt that it's a good replacement.

To me it mostly comes with a feeling of uncertainty. As if someone tells you something he got told on a party. I need to Google it, to find a trustful source for verification, else it's just a hint.

So I use it if I want a quick hint. Not if I really want to have information worth remembering. So it's certainly not a replacement for me. It actually makes things worse for me because of all that AI slop atm.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#46

Post by majormajor » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:48 PM UTC

ivanjermakov wrote: post #32

Flatcircle wrote: post #22

My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet. Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents) But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is. It's just a tool. Smart, clever…

> Search has just become Chat I think chat-like LLM interfacing is not the most efficient way. There has to be a smarter way.

I think Photoshop is a good guide here.

Famously complicated interface with a million buttons and menus.

Now there's more buttons for the AI tools.

Because at the end of the day, using a "brush" tool to paint over the area containing the thing you want it to remove or change in an image is MUCH simpler than trying to tell it that through chat. Some sort of prompt like "please remove the fifth person from the left standing on the brick path under the bus stop" vs "just explicitly select something with the GUI." The former could have a lot of value for casual amateur use; it's not going to replace the precise, high-functionality tool for professional use.

In software - would you rather chat with an LLM to see the contents of a proposed code change, or use a visual diff tool? "Let the agent run and then treat it's stuff as a PR from a junior dev" has been said so many times recently - which is not suggesting just chatting with it to do the PR instead of using the GUI. I would imagine that this would get extended to something like the input not just being less of a free-form chat, but more of a submission of a Figma mockup + a link to a ticket with specs.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#47

Post by zkmon » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:49 PM UTC

Not sure what the complaint is about. If the coding work has to be thrown away, we need to do that and move on. We did that many times earlier. We have thrown away hunting, farming, calculations by hand, cameras and so on. Coding work might get extinct for some use cases. Nothing wrong with it. Learn how to use your tools, assistants and godzillas.

The bigger issue, would there be a need for coding and software? Who would use them? Why are they using it? Are they buying something? searching for info? The usecase will see a revolution. The new usecases won't need the traditonal kind software. But AI can only produce traditional software.

Can I ask Claude to code up its clone for local use?

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#48

Post by patcon » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:49 PM UTC

Quitschquat wrote: post #35

Flatcircle wrote: post #22

My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet. Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents) But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is. It's just a tool. Smart, clever…

Google doesn’t have to change search. It already returns AI generated crap before anything useful.

I have systemic concerns with how Google is changing roles from "knowledge bridging" to "knowledge translating", but in terms of information: I find it very useful.

You find it gives you poor information?

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#49

Post by mnky9800n » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:50 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #33

karel-3d wrote: post #24

Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality. I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this. Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this. On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirec…

But you also can't not swim with the tide. If you drove a horse-buggy 100 years ago, it was probably worth your while to keep your eye on whether motor-cars went anywhere. I was super skeptical about a year ago. Copilot was making nice predictions, that was it. This agent stuff is truly impressive.

I think the agent stuff is impressive because we are giving the AI scaffold and tools and things to do. And that is why it is impressive because it has some directive. But it is obvious if you don't give it good directives it doesn't know what to do. So for me, I think a lot of jobs will be making agents do things, but a lot won't. i think its really strange that people are all so against all this stuff. it's cool new computer tools, does nobody actually like computers anymore?

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#50

Post by aDyslecticCrow » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 4:50 PM UTC

Flatcircle wrote: post #22

My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet. Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents) But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is. It's just a tool. Smart, clever…

As search gives the answer rather than the path to it, the job of finding things out properly and writing it down for others is lost. If we let that be lost, then we will all be lost.

If we cannot find a way to redirect income from AI back to the creators of the information they rehash (such as good and honest journalism), a critical load-bearing pillar of democratic society will collapse.

The news industry has been in grave danger for years, and we've seen the consequences it brings (distrust, division, misinformation, foreign manipulation). AI may drive the last stake in its back.

It's not about some jobs being replaced; that is not even remotely the issue. The path we are on currently is a dark one, and dismissing it as "just some jobs being lost" is a naive dismissal of the danger we're in.