Look. Ignore the content. Why the fuck do we allow credit card companies have a say in how we spend our money? Fraud? Abuse? Fine, let me put cash onto a card and if that card gets stolen, oh well, my loss. Mastercard should have no say in what what speech is considered acceptable outside of their offices. We don't care what execs at a water company think? Why do we care about the people at Mastercard?
> Why the fuck do we allow credit card companies have a say in how we spend our money? Because sadly 80% of people are sheep. Same reason we allow a company to decide what we can and cannot install on our smartphones.
Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
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Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#542Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just one of the ways the US forces it's weird morals onto the world.
Sexual self-denial always was the driving force behind the western cultural success. You can not have hyper-specialization and rule of law, without some members of society sacrificing a "normal" life. From the monk in the monastry to Turing hyper-focused on an enigma there is clear line. Its a ugly recipe, but its working, unlike all those other societies out there, who are currently eating themselves. A judge doesn'…
It is a feature of a subset of the culture in some countries. It is far less universal as you say.
> You can not have hyper-specialization and rule of law, without some members of society sacrificing a "normal" life.
This really does not follow. How does the existence of laws prevent someone to live a normal life? In a liberal democracy, laws fundamentally guarantee that we can do so, as long as someone’s fundamental individual freedom does not cause unacceptable harm to someone else. In that framework, what we do in private with consenting adults is absolutely nobody’s business. Rule of law does not change this.
> From the monk in the monastry to Turing hyper-focused on an enigma there is clear line.
What line is this? In which way was Turing’s persecution a requirement for him being a genius? How do we benefit from him killing himself instead of leaving him be and make other contributions to our intellectual development?
> It’s an ugly recipe, but it’s working, unlike all those other societies out there, who are currently eating themselves.
It is not. What you are advocating is a theocracy and there are many examples in History and around the world that show that it is a terrible idea.
> A judge doesn't dress like a priest for no reason.
All I can say is LOL. Ceremonial clothing is more nuanced than that.
> Sexual caste slavery or anarchy- thats the choices.
The fact that you only see these possibilities says a lot more about you than the way human beings work.
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#543Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am genuinely curious who can actually threaten Visa (I do not think it is Valve). Amazon, Walmart, Target and then increasingly unsure.
> Amazon, Walmart, Target Those are all US companies so subject to the same puritan pressures. Their cards would still be good for buying ultra violent games but not sex games...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012866
And really, even banking isn't a safe harbor. I am pretty sure they were at the forefront of the rise in neobanks and products like green dot cards.
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sexual self-denial always was the driving force behind the western cultural success. You can not have hyper-specialization and rule of law, without some members of society sacrificing a "normal" life. From the monk in the monastry to Turing hyper-focused on an enigma there is clear line. Its a ugly recipe, but its working, unlike all those other societies out there, who are currently eating themselves. A judge doesn'…
> You can not have hyper-specialization and rule of law, without some members of society sacrificing a "normal" life. Sex freaks hyper specialize in things all the time. Monks and priests also had reputations as horny perverts in Medieval literature. Also, there are plenty of non-Western countries that have been functional. This is such an out of touch, ahistorical take.
And there are plenty of western countries that do not work like that, as well.
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#545Payments companies successfully got valve to stop purveying weapons grade incest/child-porn/rape themed smut that is barely a game? Nabokov was a great author and Lolita was the work of a great author who turned his pen/typewriter to a detestable subject leading to innumerable questions about art. These guys are just z-graders who get off on non-consensual sexual interactions involving children. Valve absolutely shou…
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#546Look. Ignore the content. Why the fuck do we allow credit card companies have a say in how we spend our money? Fraud? Abuse? Fine, let me put cash onto a card and if that card gets stolen, oh well, my loss. Mastercard should have no say in what what speech is considered acceptable outside of their offices. We don't care what execs at a water company think? Why do we care about the people at Mastercard?
> Why the fuck do we allow credit card companies have a say in how we spend our money? Because sadly 80% of people are sheep. Same reason we allow a company to decide what we can and cannot install on our smartphones.
When I buy stuff on Steam I am in no way making a contract with Visa. When Visa strong arms Valve to delist games I lose even if I never had any relation with Visa ever.
It really is not comparable.
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I get it. Give me a "Freedom Card" or whatever that generates a one-time use number/cvv combo, backed by cash, that I'm fully responsible for. If I give a guy on the corner $5 cash and he walks off with it, that's between me and him. We don't need to resort to crypto. I don't care if there's a paper trail, I don't need to be anonymous. I just don't want money people to have any say in how people choose to spend t…
Thats not exactly a credit card at that point. And with a credit card, you're explicitly not spending your money. Though i agree with the idea of a debit card that doesn't allow chargebacks, but without so many annoying restrictions.
That point is not the problem though. They could just pressure Valve to refuse credit cards for all or some games. The financial aspect simply does not make sense, regardless of how you look at it (and many people had different takes in this thread).
The only angles that make sense are an ideological crusade and the risk of being sued. The first is unacceptable and the second is an utter failure on the part of the legal system.
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#548Payments companies successfully got valve to stop purveying weapons grade incest/child-porn/rape themed smut that is barely a game? Nabokov was a great author and Lolita was the work of a great author who turned his pen/typewriter to a detestable subject leading to innumerable questions about art. These guys are just z-graders who get off on non-consensual sexual interactions involving children. Valve absolutely shou…
Seems strange to go after obscure videogames (which presumably don't feature real human beings) in this way. Unless they really are unusually extreme?
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#549Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US obsession with sex (both positive and negative) is something else. Here in Europe, sex is a normal part of human life. Not a center of everything, nor a sin to be avoided. Sex art is normal. Sex games are fine. There are no moral crusaders here, because sex is moral. We tell sex jokes at work and nobody faints. We are constantly perplexed why American culture is so different from other Western cultures in that…
This boycott was run by Collective Shout, an Australian non-profit. They aren't targeting all sex games on Steam, they were targeting rape, incest, and child abuse.
Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games
#550Earlier quoted context omitted.
Credit cards are much less heavily relied on in Europe than in the USA. Europe basically runs on debit cards that every kid can have and where the fees are minuscule. There are countless banks providing the service and everything is highly regulated. On top of that, Europe still curbed Visa and Mastercard several times for antitrust behaviour. And the idea that physical money primarily aids social fraud, money launde…
> And the idea that physical money primarily aids social fraud, money washing and other illegal activities is pretty well established. They even killed the 500€ bank note, because it was almost exclusively used by criminals and most normal people never even touched one, much less used one for legit transactions. At least in Germany in particular older people prefer to pay cash if possible - this gives the banks also…
I suspect it's a combination of factors, one of them being that US cash has absolutely awful usability compared to the Euro.