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Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

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Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#211

Post by presentation »

maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

The USA is extremely litigious, rules are decided not by the legislature usually but instead by people suing each other to establish case law, and anyone with a bone to pick could sink you in legal fees and proceedings at a whim. So probably people who don’t like the idea of adult content can use the courts to make payment processors’ lives painful and they decide to just forgo that business.

US courts are too easy to use as a tool of abuse.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#213

Post by socalgal2 »

echelon wrote: post #142
soared wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if visa/etc say no, valve instantly loses ~70% of their sales. So it’s a bet they won’t win

Visa needs to be broken up.

trying: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#214

Post by yieldcrv »

throwaway071625 wrote: post #58

The article calls out “certain adult games” which is vague. It is interesting to note that most of the delisted games were themed specifically around incest. https://bsky.app/profile/steamdb.info/post/3lu32vdlsmg27 Wondering if this will be a slippery slope towards pulling more anodyne stuff.

Payment processors should be regulated like utilities. Permissionless and agnostic to anything you do.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#215

Post by devnullbrain »

egypturnash wrote: post #108

Okay so is Steam enough of a money printer for Valve to say "well fuck you guys, we'll make our own credit card with hookers and bingo"? And hold out Half-Life 3 (only purchasable with the ValveCard) as a carrot?

My first thought is: obviously not. But if 10 years ago you'd asked me if Valve would be able to turn Linux into a serious gaming platform, I'd have answered the same.

All that stemmed from an unlikely but existential fear that Microsoft could lock-down software distribution on Windows. My suspicion is that SteamOS sales and Steam Decks aren't actually profitable, they're just too valuable as a bargaining chip not to invest in. And Valve can invest in them, because they're rich and private.

While Valve bigwigs probably aren't losing sleep over the missed revenue from incest games, having the rest of their revenue stream threatened might make them seek another form of insurance.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#216

Post by maxbond »

jimbob45 wrote: post #207
maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

I suspect Valve is blaming the credit card companies for something they really wanted for themselves. Steam is a big store open to everyone and you’re going to scare away a big chunk of seniors, Christians, etc with stuff like incest, ageplay, and rape just so that a small minority uses you instead of…itch.io? Better to keep the big safe names like Being a Dik and Eternum on Steam and flush the rest so that you can h…

I think that for better or worse Valve is genuinely committed to lassies faire moderation, they have historically been very hesitant to remove really heinous games. I don't think they're using this as cover.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#217

Post by eddythompson80 »

ggoo wrote: post #202
eddythompson80 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, those games were exactly the same thing as Game of Thrones.

I mean by the content they were yeah. Precisely the problem with rules declaring what content is and isn’t acceptable.

Exactly. By content, here is a book on Amazon[1] where the author openly tells stories of rape and incest and somehow it's all Ok. Pretty much the same as Game of Thrones and those Steam games.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/01...

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#218

Post by cperciva »

maxbond wrote: post #208
tptacek wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no trouble seeing why a payment processor would want to avoid doing business with dietary supplement companies.

I mean I wouldn't do business with them, I think the supplements industry is infrastructure for grifters, quacks, and pyramid schemes to fleece the desperate, but what's the problem for Visa? Is it a brand safety thing? My presumption would be that payment processors are amoral and have no problem processing payments for Consolidated Baby Kickers if it were legal to do so, is that a misconception?

"Not as advertised" chargebacks. That industry is also full of subscription scams (e.g. someone thinks they're ordering a supplement for $5.99, but they're actually getting signed up for $39.99/month...).

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#219

Post by atomicnumber3 »

noduerme wrote: post #200
maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

My guess is it's simply a chargeback risk. It's the reason casinos and adult sites have trouble getting credit card processing and are charged much higher basic rates, even under the best of circumstances when the casino or adult site is operating entirely within the law in the jurisdictions it allows. Punters run a lot of chargebacks on casinos, and people whose spouses catch a XXX video or game on their card statem…

That's the problem though. The risk means the market for those riskier credit transactions is literally categorically not a great market. You think JP Morgan gives a shit about Japanese titty games? Hah. No. They care that these games get charged back way more often.

If there is a market opportunity, it's probably in a processor for debit-based transactions that are harder to reverse. But then that makes fraud harder to combat, and one of the reasons everyone loves credit cards so much is because consumers are far more confident to buy from random shops if they know they can always get their money back if the shop scams them.

So - this whole system's lucratively is entirely predicated on easy credit and low risk meaning low fees. Anyone who wants to play in the mud that's leftover by these companies taking the good business are inherently playing a low margin risky game.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#220

Post by manwe150 »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #167
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am genuinely curious who can actually threaten Visa (I do not think it is Valve). Amazon, Walmart, Target and then increasingly unsure.

> I am genuinely curious who can actually threaten Visa (I do not think it is Valve). Visa is a clearing house whose members are banks. Think of it like a payment router between issuers (banks) and processors (banks). Only sponsored organizations can directly use the "Visa rails", where "sponsor" is defined as a bank, a bank subsidiary, or an entity previously sponsored by one of the other two. This is also the case…

I thought Venmo was trying the most with their card offers, as well as PayPal, Cash, Google Pay and several others too
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