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From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

humansinsystems.com

31–40 of 70 posts

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#31

I find "engineer to manager" guides are fundamentally not possible to write. I've been a manager of a team 3-4 times now and each experience was entirely different from the previous. But this post makes the biggest mistake, something I have struggled with in every management role: focusing on managing down. Managing down isn't actually that hard to get the hang of if you have strong technical skills and reasonable co…

I am intrigued by your comment but a little confused as well, could you elaborate? What do you mean by ‘best manager’? Is that one who’s valuable and good for the org, or one that’s good at getting raises and promotions for himself and nobody else? If it’s the former, I’d love to hear more about why being clueless is helpful.

And what does one do if caught in the situation you describe of not ever being let into the fold? How do you manage up in that situation? Leave?

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#32
One thing that's missing from this - your metric of success will change, and you'll have to navigate that.

As an IC you have a tangible representation of what you accomplished that day - the doohickey now spins, the bloop now boops when you tap it, the clicky thing now does the clickity click.

In your first weeks as a manager you're going to look at your little box of accomplishments, find it empty, and you're going to ask yourself, "I didn't ship anything, am I doing the right things?". You will have to change what you qualify as an accomplishment, otherwise you'll long for the simplicity of attributing your success to the number of PRs merged or bugs fixed that week.

Intangible tangibles will become your potent potables, and that's OK.

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#33

You don't automatically get to call yourself leadership once you get into "management" (more like manglement) roles. And really, you have to choose. Are you a leader, of people? Or are you a manager... of resources? Your choice there will affect your mindset, and thus how you are seen to your "subordinates". God, I hate that term too. How about just listening to your "direct reports" (vomit), and having that inform y…

>The individual writing this guide appears to have only had barely two years in a hard 'management' role, according to their LinkedIn. How can they possibly be qualified to give advice on a subject that takes years and years and years of developing and refining soft skills, let alone consulting on the particulars of leading people in that time? Might as well run for President. What arrogance thinking they can go into an organization and infect it with the Tech-leadership-style-du-jour and think they've done some good.

The skills in leadership don't start developing when you become a 'manager' at work, it starts developing around the time you lose your baby teeth, maybe even before. From personal experience, there is little correlation between the amount of time spent in 'management' and how much one understands leadership.

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#34

You don't automatically get to call yourself leadership once you get into "management" (more like manglement) roles. And really, you have to choose. Are you a leader, of people? Or are you a manager... of resources? Your choice there will affect your mindset, and thus how you are seen to your "subordinates". God, I hate that term too. How about just listening to your "direct reports" (vomit), and having that inform y…

> How can they possibly be qualified to give advice on a subject that takes years and years and years of developing and refining soft skills, let alone consulting on the particulars of leading people in that time?

This seems quite excessively harsh. He doesn’t claim to be an expert with all the answers. He literally opens with “I’ll walk through some of the early challenges I faced when transitioning into engineering management.” Surely folks should be allowed to talk about their experiences and what they think they are learning.

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#35
> Try simple, genuine questions you are interested in:

> “You mentioned going to the movies last weekend. How was it?”

This does not sound genuine. At all. It sounds like you are robotically adding a fact to your notes in one meeting, then reciting it in the next for points; like there’s a recipe you are mechanically following to ++relationship.

I understand that some people struggle with smalltalk and need literal scripts to follow to get them started. But do the examples have to make this so obvious? If you need to work on your smalltalk, maybe look somewhere else to improve those skills.

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#36

A good resource for team meetings / 1:1s / etc: https://pipdecks.com

The best resource there is to not have them. They're fundamentally a waste of time. The best teams will self-organize and come to the right conclusions given vision, dare I say, leadership, from the top.

In theory, you don’t need 1:1s. In practice, if you don’t have them, some people will bottle up minor irritations until they become serious problems. 1:1s are a release valve for that. You can’t rely on everybody to proactively reach out when there’s a problem.

Also:

> The best teams will self-organize

Part of being a good manager is being able to manage suboptimal teams. It sure would be nice to hand-wave away problems with “the best teams don’t do that”, but you aren’t always dealing with the happy path.

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#37
post #7

It is very sad to see that in many companies, great engineers are forced to take on management roles to keep progressing in their careers. It seems to be the only path forward in many big companies.

Huh? The staff+ IC track is well established at many large companies. There are several good books about it: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/the-staff-engineers/978...

It's rare that there are actually anywhere near as many roles at the top of the IC pyramid as there are in the people management track, by usually 3x or more.

If you want to get promoted to a higher level as an IC, you can compete for one of the maybe 3-5 staff+ spots available from the, say, 50 engineers around you. It's even rarer once you get above staff engineer, to the degree that it's disingenuous when most companies have a career ladder with those positions on it.

Or, you can shift to management, and have access to positions that might be as many as 10-15 per 50 engineers if you include middle and upper management. There never seems to be a cap on the number of vice presidents at a larger company.

It's unrealistic to just say "Oh continue to be an IC, do good work and take on more responsibility and you'll get a staff position", because there simply aren't the jobs available at most companies for staff, senior staff, or principal engineers. Also, it's often challenging to change companies when you're in those roles - you can't just pop down the street because a significant majority of companies just don't hire those roles externally very often. Contrast with management where being a director of engineering at company A often gives you a solid option on company B or a senior director role at company C.

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#38

You don't automatically get to call yourself leadership once you get into "management" (more like manglement) roles. And really, you have to choose. Are you a leader, of people? Or are you a manager... of resources? Your choice there will affect your mindset, and thus how you are seen to your "subordinates". God, I hate that term too. How about just listening to your "direct reports" (vomit), and having that inform y…

> Your choice there will affect your mindset, and thus how you are seen to your "subordinates". God, I hate that term too.

The article doesn’t use that term and neither do any of the comments here. If you hate the term, why are you bringing it into the conversation?

Re: From engineer to manager: A practical guide to your first months in leadership

#40

I find "engineer to manager" guides are fundamentally not possible to write. I've been a manager of a team 3-4 times now and each experience was entirely different from the previous. But this post makes the biggest mistake, something I have struggled with in every management role: focusing on managing down. Managing down isn't actually that hard to get the hang of if you have strong technical skills and reasonable co…

Even though I think you are right, I believe your expectations for what a guide should do is wrong. A set of norms and practices are usually encoded in manuals, whereas guides serve for general orientation. In this sense, I believe if the guide is well written, it could well serve as an orientation for what to expect in order to adapt as a manager.
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