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I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

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Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#401

Post by maleldil »

kolanos wrote: post #301
moffkalast wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think the dumber thing is having to create an empty file called __init__.py for a package to register as a package. And relative imports being completely fubar.

> I would think the dumber thing is having to create an empty file called __init__.py for a package to register as a package. This hasn't been true since Python 3.3. You no longer need a __init__.py for Python to recognize a module, but it can still be useful in many cases.

This is incorrect.

> The __init__.py files are required to make Python treat directories containing the file as packages (unless using a namespace package, a relatively advanced feature).

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/modules.html

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#402

Post by deepsun »

zeroc8 wrote: post #274
mey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is general take as well. A lot of small apps/simulators are in python. Ops scripts tend to be python. Java for the core/data. Refactoring/tooling is easier in Java when you are dealing with a 100k codebase imo. Typescript always. Seen plenty of coding horrors in both ecosystems...

Algorithms are a lot easier to understand when they are written in Python. I'm actually right now documenting medium size Java codebase by writing pseudocode, which looks like Python. Just by doing that, I've already discovered multiple bugs, which I didn't catch by looking at the Java code.

Try Kotlin then.

I wouldn't call it a new language, for me it's just a syntactic sugar over Java, but for any problem you would google "how to do X in Java", not "how to do X in Kotlin".

But there you can do way simpler syntax, like:

    0..100 meters with -45..45 deg within 3 seconds
Because "0..100 meters ..." is equivalent to "(0..100).meters(...)"

(0..100) is a built-in IntRange type, that you can extend:

    data class MyDistanceRange(val meters: ClosedRange)

    val IntRange.meters: MyDistanceRange
        get() = MyDistanceRange(first.toDouble()..last.toDouble())
and

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#403

Post by consumer451 »

simonw wrote: post #287

> I would like to have a tool that generates the project structure for me, but I haven’t found one that fits me yet. I recommend cookiecutter for this. I have a few templates I've built with that which I use frequently: python-lib: https://github.com/simonw/python-lib click-app: https://github.com/simonw/click-app datasette-plugin: https://github.com/simonw/datasette-plugin llm-plugin: https://github.com/simonw/llm-p…

This type of thing seems ripe for building into agentic LLM dev workflows, doesn't it?

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#404

Post by suspended_state »

nomel wrote: post #319
bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really unique to the walrus operator, it's just a general python quirk (albeit one I find incredibly annoying). `for i in range(5): ...` will leave `i` bound to 4 after the loop.

Oddly enough, "except" variables don't remain bound! try: x = int('cat') except Exception as e: pass print(e) # So, it appears Python actually has three variable scopes (global, local, exception block)?

> Oddly enough

It's not that odd, since it's the only situation where you cannot keep it bounded, unless you enjoy having variables that may or may not be defined (Heisenberg variable?), depending on whether the exception has been raised or not?

Compare with the if statement, where the variable in the expression being tested will necessarily be defined.

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#405

Post by bjourne »

Mawr wrote: post #80

Just a small note on the code in the linked script: API_KEY = os.environ.get("YOUTUBE_API_KEY") CHANNEL_ID = os.environ.get("YOUTUBE_CHANNEL_ID") if not API_KEY or not CHANNEL_ID: print("Missing YOUTUBE_API_KEY or YOUTUBE_CHANNEL_ID.") exit(1) Presenting the user with "Missing X OR Y" when there's no reason that OR has to be there massively frustrates the user for the near zero benefit of having one fewer if statemen…

Neophytes take notice. Attention to details like this is what separates truly great programmers from merely good ones. That said, for scripts reusable by others you should use command line arguments . Environment variables in lieu of command line arguments is a huge code smell.

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#406

Post by SerpentJoe »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #376
nomel wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough, "except" variables don't remain bound! try: x = int('cat') except Exception as e: pass print(e) # So, it appears Python actually has three variable scopes (global, local, exception block)?

Also true of JavaScript pre-ES5, another language that on first glance seems to only have function scope: it actually does have block scope, but only for variables introduced in `catch` blocks. AFAIU that was the standard way for a dumb transpiler to emulate `let`.

I wonder if that was ever popular, considering the deoptimization effects of try/catch, and given that block scope can also be managed by renaming variables.

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#407

Post by _dain_ »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #289
tombert wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because sometimes I want to have logic that spans multiple lines and I don't want to assign it a name. An easy example might be something with a `map` or a filter. For example, in JavaScript [1,2,3,4].filter(x => { let z = x * 2; let y = x * 3; let a = x / 2; return (z + x * a) % 27 == 2; }); Obviously I know I could name this function and feed it in, but for one-off logic like this I feel a lambda is descriptive eno…

Honestly, I don't really see the appeal of unnamed functions in general. I so rarely use lambdas that I wouldn't really miss them if they were gone. Just occasionally as a sort key, or in a comprehension. I have seen people do this in JavaScript quite often, but I always assumed there was some kind of underlying performance benefit that I didn't know about. As I think about it I guess it makes sense if you're passing…

Naming things is one of the hard problems of computer science. It's nice not to be forced into naming something.

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#408

Post by frollogaston »

acdha wrote: post #76
CoolCold wrote: post #55

> Not only because the syntax is more human-friendly, but also because the Python interpreter is natively integrated in all Unix distros That's kind of very optimistic evaluation - literally anything beyond "import json" will likely lead you into the abyss of virtual envs. Running something created with say Python 3.13.x on Ubuntu 22.04 or even 24.04 (LTSs) / Rocky 9 and the whole can of worms opened. things like vir…

“import json” is the kind of thing which requires picking and installing libraries in batteries-not-included languages, and it’s just one of many modules which are in the standard library. That’s not a compelling basis for large projects but over the years I’ve shipped a ton of useful production code which never needed more than the stdlib and thus spent no time at all thinking about deployment or security patching.…

The official package manager is pip, it's broken, and there has been a new "permanent solution" replacement for it each year.

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#409

Post by frollogaston »

turtlebits wrote: post #169
CoolCold wrote: post #55

> Not only because the syntax is more human-friendly, but also because the Python interpreter is natively integrated in all Unix distros That's kind of very optimistic evaluation - literally anything beyond "import json" will likely lead you into the abyss of virtual envs. Running something created with say Python 3.13.x on Ubuntu 22.04 or even 24.04 (LTSs) / Rocky 9 and the whole can of worms opened. things like vir…

You should always use virtual envs. They're a single directory, how are they an abyss? Pip now complains if you try to install a package system wide.

I don't have to deal with this in JS or I think in other stuff like Golang. I give someone a package.json with versions of everything. npm install always sets deps up locally, but doesn't need to copy the entire NodeJS runtime.

Re: I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

#410

Post by NekkoDroid »

suspended_state wrote: post #404
nomel wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough, "except" variables don't remain bound! try: x = int('cat') except Exception as e: pass print(e) # So, it appears Python actually has three variable scopes (global, local, exception block)?

> Oddly enough It's not that odd, since it's the only situation where you cannot keep it bounded, unless you enjoy having variables that may or may not be defined (Heisenberg variable?), depending on whether the exception has been raised or not? Compare with the if statement, where the variable in the expression being tested will necessarily be defined.

While somewhat true, what would this be bound to?

    for i in range(0):
        pass
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