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Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

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Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#141

Post by palata »

zozbot234 wrote: post #120
palata wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points, except this: > thanks to the Steam Deck [...] but I would be reluctant to call that Linux Desktop anymore than I would call Android an uptick for Linux. The Steam Deck very much runs Linux Desktop. Android runs the Linux kernel, but everything else is different. SteamOS is a Linux distribution based on Arch. If you run your Steam Deck in "desktop mode", it is very much a Linux Desktop (with…

Android systems don't even run the linux kernel in any real sense, pretty much every downstream kernel has millions of lines of patched code that will never make it upstream in their current form. Of course, that's no different from mostly any other "Linux" embedded device, but it's very different indeed from what's standard on desktop systems.

I would still count it as the Linux kernel. They don't change the syscall API, it's really mostly at the BSP level, right?

Said differently: if manufacturers cared to mainstream their changes, they could. And we would all be better for it.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#142

Post by palata »

Zambyte wrote: post #88
palata wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more "they will give less control in order to please the peasants, and as a result I will lose control". And I agree with that concern, though my hope is that we can make it easier for the peasants without sacrificing control for the nerds (trying to find a word that would work with "peasant" in this context :D).

I disagree with the concern, because obviously making Free Software easier for non-technically inclined people to use does not make the software harder for technically inclined people to use. This is strictly an issue for proprietary software.

Yeah, I think I agree with you after all. As long as it's open source, it's okay.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#143

Post by osigurdson »

After installing Arch / Gnome on my laptop last week, I can see why. Everything works completely fine and feels 3X faster than Windows 11. I have Linux on my desktop machine but always hesitated for laptops due to past bad experiences with power management (i.e. something always eventually went wrong when closing the lid). So far, all of that is working perfectly.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#144

Post by Zambyte »

HKH2 wrote: post #111
Zambyte wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the concern, because obviously making Free Software easier for non-technically inclined people to use does not make the software harder for technically inclined people to use. This is strictly an issue for proprietary software.

If they take out options, then you might have to maintain a fork or write a plugin to keep them.

And thus, nothing was lost except the superiority complex :)

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#145

Post by donatj »

Windows 11 not working on otherwise perfectly good PCs I imagine is at least a small part of it. I've got an 8-core Ryzen system I think from 2016 that's still very powerful and more than good enough for my needs, but Microsoft is insisting I "throw it away and buy a new one", in this economy no less!

I also think a number of influencers like PewDiePie moving to Linux has to have moved the needle at least a little as well.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#146

Post by huh___ »

blashyrk wrote: post #118
fghjl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the problems still are that (1) no Desktop Linux is at the level of macOS or Windows, and (2) the only one close is still RedHat, but most want Debian-based or something else. MacOS is the best model for a successful desktop Linux to use. Trim down the kernel/drivers to just what runs on that spec hardware, only support that spec hardware, focus effort on the OS and ecosystem, keep it stable, make upgrades t…

Macos window/desktop management is also stuck in 2001 with "magic gestures" tacked on. For someone who hates using these gestures especially when connected to an actually good kb/m, the base desktop experience is horrible. The dock is completely useless, the various cmd+tab or cmd+` shortcuts are unwieldy, Spotlight is growing increasingly worse year after year. Rectangle/tiling window managers on top is the only way…

What gestures are you talking about? I think you can turn those off, and I’d be surprised if there isn’t a way to turn off the rest with a 3rd party or custom tool.

Application notarization isn’t a problem anymore- you just have a single accept dialog. That problem that made you do a trick to get past it was only a problem years ago, due to whomever the moron was that thought that was a good idea. The current way is acceptable.

I install homebrew and random apps with no problems.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#147

Post by kattagarian »

palata wrote: post #106

I think that there are multiple things at play: 1. The statistics only show Desktop usage relative to each other. But I could totally imagine that macOS "loses" users to iPadOS. Similarly, Windows could be losing users to smartphones in general (I see more and more people who don't actually have a personal computer anymore). 2. Valve (and others, surely) is doing an incredible job with video games on Linux. 20 years…

> Similarly, Windows could be losing users to smartphones in general

But this is desktop only. If someone stop using windows completely, it won't show a decrease in windows usage. This will basically only show when people switch from desktop OS.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#148

Post by acdha »

nerdjon wrote: post #105
palata wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points, except this: > thanks to the Steam Deck [...] but I would be reluctant to call that Linux Desktop anymore than I would call Android an uptick for Linux. The Steam Deck very much runs Linux Desktop. Android runs the Linux kernel, but everything else is different. SteamOS is a Linux distribution based on Arch. If you run your Steam Deck in "desktop mode", it is very much a Linux Desktop (with…

Admittedly yeah SteamOS does walk that line, and I guess technically given that I think these numbers are based on browser data it would only be capturing the people that actually go into desktop mode (maybe?). But, I think there is a conversation around this to ask how many of the people using a Steam Deck actually go into desktop mode or care that it is Linux (or even understand that it is Linux) vs would switch to…

One way to think about it is what APIs application developers are using. If most of the code running on a Steam Deck is Windows code running under a compatibility layer, it probably doesn’t help the larger Linux community in the same way that, say, iOS popularity has helped ensure that many libraries have excellent macOS support.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#149

Post by nerdjon »

palata wrote: post #112
nerdjon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly yeah SteamOS does walk that line, and I guess technically given that I think these numbers are based on browser data it would only be capturing the people that actually go into desktop mode (maybe?). But, I think there is a conversation around this to ask how many of the people using a Steam Deck actually go into desktop mode or care that it is Linux (or even understand that it is Linux) vs would switch to…

Even in the "normal mode", I would argue that it is still Linux Desktop. A Linux Desktop init system, with a Linux Desktop userspace, with a Linux Desktop libc, with the Linux Desktop security model, a Linux Desktop package manager, a Linux Desktop compositor (it uses something based on Wayland, right?), etc. If you open a terminal (or SSH into it), you're on Linux. It's very, very different on Android. > how many of…

It is an interesting distinction, unlike Android I do admit that SteamOS is obviously contributing to Linux Desktop market share. I just think it is a complicated situation.

From my understanding Xbox is running a version of Windows on their consoles (not talking about the new handhelds) tailor made for Xbox. But I would not call that adding to the Windows marketshare.

iOS and iPadOS were started with versions of OSX and then modified (and clearly share some pieces) but we would not call either of those as contributing to Mac's marketshare.

Obviously yes neither of those let you go into the traditional Mac or Windows desktop unlike SteamOS. But how the users perceive it is still important.

> Probably most don't. But that's a goal. If corporate employees could use a Linux Desktop without caring that it is Linux, it would mean that the corporation can move to Linux, and that would be big.

The problem is this works the other way also. If most users of the Steam Deck don't care or really know that it is Linux there is not much getting in the way of Microsoft coming in with their new handheld/OS and eating up that market if they can get the OS to perform as well.

Put another way, if Valve decided (not saying they would, just asking a hypothetical) to either write their own OS or switch the underlying OS to Windows but kept the look of SteamOS as it behaved now and performance was the same. Would most users of the Steam Deck know or care?

Personally I think for claims about the "linux desktop" to really matter, there has to be a conscious desire and care that it is Linux or it could disappear.

Re: Linux Reaches 5% Desktop Market Share in USA

#150

Post by palata »

lvass wrote: post #87
ryandv wrote: post #22

Based on the history of the tech industry, Linux adoption should be kept at this level and advanced no further. This is already the sweet spot for the "year of the Linux desktop," which should be celebrated by experts, technical users, and the sufficiently motivated. Once the unwashed masses start coming in, the software and its interaction patterns pander to the lowest common denominator and the quality of the mediu…

How exactly is Linux becoming popular going to make my EXWM setup suck? To be fair, if it does get a large market share, some company is probably going to take MS's role and make a distro that sucks but many people use. But that shouldn't be an issue to existing users unless they take over something like a major DE and you insist on using that for some reason. For IT people, having the possibility of running a decent…

> some company is probably going to take MS's role and make a distro that sucks but many people use

You mean other than Ubuntu and the likes?

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