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What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

derekthompson.org

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Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#441

Post by stackskipton »

dividefuel wrote: post #202

I see three big reasons why people aren't having kids: #1: Raising kids is really hard. They're expensive. They eed constant attention when they're young, and in modern American society they need to be in a bunch of activities once they're older. And all the various tasks of day-to-day life that don't disappear: work, food prep, cleaning. I spend virtually all my waking hours on work, chores, and childcare. Being abl…

There is also #4, there is plenty of women who don't want kids. Women having kids was not option until advent of modern birth control unless they were totally celibate.

My wife has zero interest in having kids but enjoys being married, if this were 100 years ago, she likely would have kids by now.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#442

Post by maxerickson »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #436
vjulian wrote: post #408

What we need are 25/30+ year-olds who are completely at ease with sex, who have no hang-ups, and who know how to form strong relationships because they’ve been doing it and having sex freely since they were teenagers. Instead, we have a generation of adults of parenting age who are deeply uncomfortable with sex and emotionally unskilled in relationships. And that’s a big part of the problem. I’m saying a large swathe…

This is an unusual take. People in the past made 4-10 babies per family and they did it by being celibate until marriage. Sex positivity and casual relationships were not normal, and grandparents encouraged marriage before sex, probably because the grandparents knew they’d be partially responsible for raising the kid and wanted to ensure two parents to help care for their grandchildren

Also, pro wrestling is real.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#443

Post by Fade_Dance »

stevula wrote: post #396
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is insane to me that I'm now seeing this "oh actually teen pregnancy wasn't so bad" thing pop up all over the place. The other side of this is insane to me... the "oh actually looming human extinction won't be so bad" thing. Sub-replacement fertility rates are slow-motion extinction. Animal models where they "bounce back" is irrelevant, those animals have their extremely high above-replacement fertility all…

“Developed countries have reduced population growth” is a far cry from “looming human extinction”.

Pro-natal cultures have thrived vs less-natal cultures for literally thousands of years. That's how we got here. I also don't see the problem.

(I strictly used the word culture and not anything biological or genetic since I'm not aiming at that line of talk in the slightest, to be clear)

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#444

Post by WorkerBee28474 »

hnpolicestate wrote: post #394

80 million people died during WW II. That's what caused the baby boom. I assume birth rates also rose after the black death. Babybooms and societal renaissance I think only happen after cataclysmic events.

> I assume birth rates also rose after the black death

It seems not. Wikipedia says it took 80-150 years (4-7 generations) to recover from a ~21% population drop [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequences_of_the_Black_Deat...

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#445

Post by paradox460 »

like_any_other wrote: post #283
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #36

These studies never seem to look at time spent parenting, between baby-boom years and now. My parents parented a few hours a week and were entirely typical. I parented ceaselessly, just like my parenting-peers. My parents world was possible because kids roamed with peers (and without adults) for many hours a week. This was my childhood, my parents childhood, my grandparents childhood. My kids grew up under 24/7 adult…

Don't forget the parenting of extended family and neighbors - it takes a village.. But we're moving further and further from local, village-like lives.

We're also seeing baby boomers, who were raised partially by their grandparents, neglecting the role of grandparent. They live vicariously, through Facebook and video calls, and when the parents ask for them to get more involved, they're met with "I raised you, so I've done my part"

Both my wife and my parents maybe see our kids twice a year, thrice if they have some other reason to come to town. And it's not an issue of health. They all travel regularly, for extended periods.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#446

Post by seanmcdirmid »

crtified wrote: post #178

My anecdotal experience, which illustrates how changing societal norms may be contributing. Around 1960, my grandmother scandalously fell pregnant with my mother in her late teens. The child was adopted out - well, not out - in. To her own grandmother, to be raised as a "younger sister" to her own mother. Around 1980, my mother scandalously fell pregnant with me, in her late teens. Despite family disapproval, the chi…

Having kids when you are young and financially not established is just irresponsible, but particularly female bodies don’t do well having kids older when you are established enough to do so responsibly. I’m having this problem right now with my spouse (we have a kid, but are thinking about another), it’s just super hard to get pregnant without medical help.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#447

Post by vjulian »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #436
vjulian wrote: post #408

What we need are 25/30+ year-olds who are completely at ease with sex, who have no hang-ups, and who know how to form strong relationships because they’ve been doing it and having sex freely since they were teenagers. Instead, we have a generation of adults of parenting age who are deeply uncomfortable with sex and emotionally unskilled in relationships. And that’s a big part of the problem. I’m saying a large swathe…

This is an unusual take. People in the past made 4-10 babies per family and they did it by being celibate until marriage. Sex positivity and casual relationships were not normal, and grandparents encouraged marriage before sex, probably because the grandparents knew they’d be partially responsible for raising the kid and wanted to ensure two parents to help care for their grandchildren

That time period is so markedly different from ours, the comparison is useless.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#448

Post by thrownearacc »

teitoklien wrote: post #429
senectus1 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree, his experience is also salient. Ease of access to birth control and ease and safety of abortion will be having a very detectable impact on the birthrate. Not saying they need to be restricted, just that they're very relevant data points.

it is heavily politicized, atleast for the forseable future, until society reaches a conclusion, people will lie with statistics, smear their opponents in discussion as bigots, sexists, whatever. But sooner or later it needs to be asked and acted upon. Should society structure itself to penalise abortions, and reward births of children. Did our old religious and conservative societies where parents and grandparents h…

> folks who'll say back then kids didnt have a great childhood

If you count a 11 year girl child to be raped by and then married to her 60 year old (maybe wealthy) relative then yeah she indeed had a fucking fabulous childhood.

> penalise abortions, and reward births of children

For fuck's sake - there's a difference between a teen abortion and an adult abortion! But then you wouldn't understand why one "aborts"! Oh you do understand but you want that decision to be "society's" - not that person in whose body a fucking foetus is growing!

I mean is the moronity this common? For fuck's sake, freedom to abort is not what is killing the birthrate - it's the way our economy and other aspects of society is going haywire - and the way wealth and benefits are tricking up, not down, the work culture for example the way that is forcing people to work day and night and yet they can't own a house - among other things. Goodness!

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#449

Post by andrekandre »

Aurornis wrote: post #398
UncleMeat wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortions are not the primary reason why teen pregnancy is way down. There's actual data, you know. Fewer teen pregnancies is a reason why birth rates in the US are declining. But it isn't driven by abortion. And it is insane to me that I'm now seeing this "oh actually teen pregnancy wasn't so bad" thing pop up all over the place.

It’s strange to see that anecdote so highly upvoted when it’s so trivial to look at birth rates by parental age. Reduced teen pregnancies are not the driving factor in recent fertility rate declines at all. It is interesting how an appeal to emotion with a difficult story can lead so many to overlook the obvious shortcomings in that explanation. Honestly this entire comment section has a lot of people making guesses…

  > Honestly this entire comment section has a lot of people making guesses or putting forth their own theories without having even skimmed the article.
its a microcosm of our entire political discourse as of late imo: everyone is talking anecdotes and feels and barely anyone is bringing the receipts (and if they do its barely noticed)
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