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Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

nickoneill.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#11

Post by kapilkale »

Its worth considering why this happens.

A startup hub like Silicon Valley is partially valuable because founders / investors / etc run into each other, and presumably something good comes out of these chance meetings.

Let's assume John is running a failing startup. John goes to TC Disrupt and meets all sorts of people, some of whom ask him how his startup is doing?

John can't say that his startup has no traction, or that they can't get investors lined up, or that the last startup he ran was a failure. If there's a shot this person can help John out, he's best served by presenting an optimistic and selective version of the truth. Which is where things like vanity metrics come in.

Even if Valley folks didn't judge startups for having a tough time, it would be in every founders incentive to present a positive outward image.

There's an art to this where you shouldn't lie or present metrics so ludicrous they tip off the bullshit-meter of whoever you're talking to. But some combination of honesty, optimism, and determination seems like a better formula than listing the shortcomings of your startup in your first casual conversation with someone you just met.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#13

Post by famousactress »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway.

I promise you it doesn't.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#14

Post by baddox »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

So, the initial people start lying in order to compete, and that's bad, but when you subsequently lie in order to compete, it's okay because you're "forced" to?

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#15

Post by 3pt14159 »

You think Silicon Valley is bad? Hahaha. You should see Toronto. The distribution here is totally bimodal. The 10 to 15% that get it and the remainder that are so totally clueless it isn't even funny.

I once, when I was younger and dumber, had a self-proclaimed "angel" investor tell me that he needed to ask his wife if he could invest 25k after leading me to believe he could close a whole round himself. Of course this was 3 or 4 months after we first started talking to him.

Man, I have to stop myself or I'm going to end up being quoted in a Tech Crunch article. At least in SV lies at least have some point to them. Make more money, or initiate a relationship. Over here people don't even lie for a purpose, they do it just to try to look cool and waste other peoples time.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#16

Post by larrys »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

"that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway"

In a way similar to what some people do to attract the opposite (or, uh I guess in cases the same) sex. If there is a perceived big enough prize people will say what they have to say to win.

For the record early in my career with my first company I had to sell up against IBM for a contract about 500 hundred thousand dollars. I told the buyer honestly that if they wanted to be assured of making the right decision to go with IBM because of our small size. But if they wanted a team that could (I don't remember the exact wording so instead of making it up I will leave it at just something like "work harder for you" although it was obviously more creative than that). We got the contract against IBM and their professional sales team in suits and kept it for about 7 years.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#17

Post by Mvandenbergh »

hkmurakami wrote: post #7
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The impression I've gotten is that prospective investors and the like expect that you're going to contort your numbers into a just-over-the-horizon hockey stick. So, any stance that rejects this fake 'crushing it'[1] mentality is viewed as an indication that you're failing miserably. [1] F…

>What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The slippery slope that reminds me of the Harvard cheating article that was on the HN frontpage today [1]. It also reminds me of doping among professional athletes. If others are lying/cheating/doping to get ahead and succeed, I wonder what the "right thing to do" is, for those who manage…

See also: "passive doping", which is when a non-doping cyclist ruins themselves physically to compete head to head with cyclists who are doping.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#18

Post by larrys »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8
hkmurakami wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What especially bothers me about this sort of trend is that it forces those of us who aren't big on bullshitting to do it anyway. The slippery slope that reminds me of the Harvard cheating article that was on the HN frontpage today [1]. It also reminds me of doping among professional athletes. If others are lying/cheating/doping to get ahead and succeed, I wonder what the "right thing to do" is, for those who manage…

> I wonder what the "right thing to do" is, for those who manage to have the perspective to think of how they should act I'm consulting enough to pay my bills and live comfortably, while building products for which I will charge money. If these products work out, then awesome! If not, no harm done. I've learned a bunch of new skills and added some cool new pieces to my portfolio, which I can flip into picking up new…

"I'm pursuing a 'lifestyle' business"

Nothing at all wrong with starting small and building up from there. Don't apologize. Work 80 per week in your "lifestyle" business and you will see it grow.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#19

Post by aaronbrethorst »

larrys wrote: post #18
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the "right thing to do" is, for those who manage to have the perspective to think of how they should act I'm consulting enough to pay my bills and live comfortably, while building products for which I will charge money. If these products work out, then awesome! If not, no harm done. I've learned a bunch of new skills and added some cool new pieces to my portfolio, which I can flip into picking up new…

"I'm pursuing a 'lifestyle' business" Nothing at all wrong with starting small and building up from there. Don't apologize. Work 80 per week in your "lifestyle" business and you will see it grow.

I'm definitely not apologizing, nor am I working 80 hours a week on my 'lifestyle' business :)

The contract I'm doing right now is, by far, the best job I've ever had. My stylist remarked to me the other day that I haven't lost any more hair in between my last two visits to him. My girlfriend thinks I'm generally more relaxed and happier than she's ever seen me.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#20

Post by benatkin »

Most lies in the startup community are shallow lies that mislead those who don't have filters or don't care enough about a particular entity to do their homework about them. It's deep lies where people attempt to mislead even those that are doing due diligence that are high risk. Shallow lies have a lower, but still significant, risk to the liars.

I think it's good to ask why someone is singling out a single person or company for shallow lies, as it might reveal a bias. Something doesn't seem quite right about that TechCrunch post.

With some shallow lies, large amounts of money is at stake. Investors will make mistakes and lose money. These shallow lies are worth paying attention to and so are those who keep getting fooled by them.

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