37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady • Hacker News Board

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#211

Post by rhizome » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:19 PM UTC

emmett wrote: post #156

saraid216 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that there exist more than two business models in the whole of the world, right? Where do you get this strange taxonomy of "products" versus "services" anyways?

You're being needlessly pedantic. It's pretty obvious that by "service" he means a business where you are paid per hour you work: all freelancers, consultants, and all other businesses where the owner is a critical daily employee. Yes, that's not a typical word for the distinction, but you know what he means.

It's less than not-typical, it's just wrong.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#212

Post by anamax » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:22 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #196

anamax wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions are simply a balancing force to that of the management whose sole purpose is to extract as much profit from the enterprise. You say "profit" like it's a bad thing. It's not, it's what funds new good things. And, reducing costs is a good thing. It produces "more". BTW - Management's goal is to extract as much profit for managers, not for the enterprise. One big problem with the corporate model is that no one…

Profit is "evil" here because it creates incentives for all sorts of bad things. This is what necessitates a balancing force.

> Profit is "evil" here because it creates incentives for all sorts of bad things. This is what necessitates a balancing force.

Even if that's true, unions aren't a balancing force to the "incentives for all sorts of bad things". The only role that unions will play here is in trying to get their cut.

Actually, that's wrong. Unions will often actively help commit said "bad things" because they'll benefit. For example, unions are often quite protectionist.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#213

Post by rhizome » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:24 PM UTC

dlss wrote: post #185

pg wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand quite well the idea of company that isn't focused simply on revenue growth. I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others. But articles of that type are case studies, not news, which is why I explicitly distinguished between them.

first "What makes a company newsworthy (unless it's as a case study) is its size, or potential size." then "But articles of that type are case studies, not news" first "Do you really want to read articles about all of them? I don't." then "I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others." I think what you want is for Jason to have said "I wish the technical community were focuse…

Not that case study vs news is a real dichotomy

In fact, we see case studies as news (and even less-than-news) all day long here and elsewhere. You can tell by the titles that generally come from blogs and usually look clickbait-y: "How Company/Developer X achieved goal Y," "Why Language Z helped us triple our revenues," etc.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#214

Post by saraid216 » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:33 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #206

davidw wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think we can get anywhere with speculation: he might see her happy because people are pretty good at putting on a mask in professional situations. Or maybe she just really is happy. However, in the aggregate, I'd be willing to bet on most cleaning people preferring the income, and freedom that 37 signals have. With that kind of money, you have a lot of options that someone making cleaning wages just do…

"Or maybe she just really is happy." Not speaking about this person (who neither of us know) but strictly about people in general by using an example of cows in a field. A cow in a field can stand there all day and just graze on grass. Our cat can sit there all day and just do nothing. Could you do that? All day, every day? People with brains are more complex. In general if she is happy doing cleaning work we can pre…

> People with brains are more complex. In general if she is happy doing cleaning work we can presume she doesn't have the same brain or needs, of, say someone with higher intelligence. People are different in what their needs are.

That's almost as patronizing as it is naive.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#215

Post by larrys » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #214

larrys wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Or maybe she just really is happy." Not speaking about this person (who neither of us know) but strictly about people in general by using an example of cows in a field. A cow in a field can stand there all day and just graze on grass. Our cat can sit there all day and just do nothing. Could you do that? All day, every day? People with brains are more complex. In general if she is happy doing cleaning work we can pre…

> People with brains are more complex. In general if she is happy doing cleaning work we can presume she doesn't have the same brain or needs, of, say someone with higher intelligence. People are different in what their needs are. That's almost as patronizing as it is naive.

Well ok then what are you basing your thoughts on? I'm basing mine on a lifetime of meeting thousands of people from all walks of life and the story as presented by the OP.

I stand behind what I have said.

Would you be happy doing the simple tasks of cleaning houses everyday? Or do you prefer something more challenging like what you are doing (software development it appears). Or at least managing others doing the drudge work?

From the OP it doesn't appear that we are talking about someone making their way to something greater by cleaning houses but somebody who's station in life is cleaning houses.

Regardless of whether she was forced to clean houses because, for example, she was an immigrant or needed to feed a family she could have, with greater intelligence, risen to employ others to do the work for her at the very least. (My cleaning lady, from Brazil, has about 5 people working for her and I've seen examples of this with all sorts of people who start doing a task and rise to employ at least a few people to help out).

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#216

Post by davidw » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:44 PM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #209

emmett wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being needlessly pedantic. It's pretty obvious that by "service" he means a business where you are paid per hour you work: all freelancers, consultants, and all other businesses where the owner is a critical daily employee. Yes, that's not a typical word for the distinction, but you know what he means.

> You're being needlessly pedantic. Um, no. I was being exactly as pedantic as he was. The difference was that my word choice was actually correct.

Do you understand what I am trying to communicate, or not?

It does not seem like a difficult concept, so cut out the "Comic Book Guy" routine. Go ahead and actually correct my terminology if you care to - furthering everyone's knowledge is always a plus - but otherwise you are not adding anything.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#217

Post by gfodor » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:54 PM UTC

_urga wrote: post #207

gfodor wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess you spend your afternoons reading blue chip 10-k's? Didn't think so.

Just Sunday afternoons. Haven't for awhile. Keen to get back into it. All the best with the work at Etsy.

Apologies, that 3AM comment came off more dickish than I intended. Was meant to be a joke implying there is reason people don't write stories about simple, successful companies: they're boring.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#218

Post by dkrich » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 12:23 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #130

whalesalad wrote: post #18

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a wh…

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

I think this is one of those cases that's akin to the famous quote by Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart when he said "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it."

I think a lot of people are sick of the crap written on TechCrunch for reasons that are hard to define. Mostly they have turned the innovative process into a form of TMZ, which glamorizes a field that is meant to build things to make lives better. Very few articles have anything to do with companies building these types of innovations, and profits have nothing to do with it. A response might be, well Scientific American writes those stories. Yes, and that's precisely why Scientific American is a respected publication oft-cited by Steve Jobs.

Too many stories on TechCrunch are titled something like "[Insert clever startup name] raises [insert some absurd amount of money] to become the [Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, Birchbox] for [Work, Finding a cab, Healthfood]. These stories are ridiculous and cover mostly crap ideas that don't solve any real problems.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#219

Post by dkrich » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 12:32 AM UTC

nameuserc wrote: post #210

sleepyhead wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they sell something you don't need. Why do you have a problem with that?

Assuming what you say were true (i.e., that I "have a problem" with 37Signals), do you "have a problem" with me "having a problem" with that? Do you also sell something people do not need? And does it make you uncomfortable when people who do not need it mentions that to an audience via HN, the same way 37Signals keeps working to make mention of itself, or have others do so, in publications with large audiences. If I…

What you are saying is akin to somebody from the revolutionary war going forward in time to the age of the cell phone and saying "People are talking through these boxes but I communicate just fine with the people in my house. I don't need these boxes. It's okay if you do."

I'm not by any means suggesting that you're stupid or out of your league, but simply that you are talking about something that you are clearly completely unfamiliar with. Have you ever managed a team of people and projects? Once you do you will understand what an incredible pain in the ass it is to rely on email and spreadsheets. Full disclosure- I am NOT a 37Signals customer, nor do I know anybody affiliated with the company. Simply that project management software is a very real need for a very large number of teams. One of their partners created Ruby on Rails to create Basecamp, then released the framework for anybody to use and remained as a core contributor.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#220

Post by quesera » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 1:20 AM UTC

18pfsmt wrote: post #184

quesera wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPO has been verbed for at least 15 years in Silicon Valley. Probably longer. Your statement is both pedantic and incorrect.

I simply disagree that because some people decided to misuse a term, it is now appropriate. I think the use of IPO as a verb was done to sound sophisticated (and legitimate) and exciting, without understanding what SOX compliance involves. It seems to me that the only reason one would say "IPO" as a verb rather than "go public" would be to demonstrate some familiarity with jargon and gain some credibility among amate…

That's just how language works.

My anecdotal evidence dates back to Netscape, so 1995. Shortly thereafter, the Valley was deluged by people with limited knowledge of financial markets who might have been reaching for the faux sophistication you describe, but this was before all that (and long before SOX). Bankers still usually got it right back then, but they didn't do most of the talking.

Anyway, I'm all for pedantry. I do take issue with your assertion that inappropriately verbing the acronym will hold younger entrepreneurs back in some way. I do not believe it.

It seems to me that you might have some special reverence for the term. Fair enough. Surely you've seen this happen before though, to lesser words?