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LLM Inevitabilism

tomrenner.com

261–270 of 1001 posts

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#261

This is the same strategy Hillary Clinton supporters tried to use too. The author is right, it's just a framing technique. We can choose the future we want.

John Gray the philosopher expands on this by saying that Progress as a whole is thought of as inevitable. The last couple of years I think have shown the cracks in this thinking. Western notions of progress, the liberal movement to increase and improve humanity is actually something to be activiely fought for, it's not something that will organically happen. It's not a human right. But that's what we are told: "the right side of history" is the framing.

People today think progress is a natural thing. That it's inevitable that human rights increase, the individual liberty increases, that my self expression becomes more secure with time, naturally. We still see this inevitablism in culture and politics.

That the political inevitablists don't see the history and origins of progress and liberalism (e.g. partly Christianity) is part of the diagnosis.

We might see parallels with AI. We might see anti-AI stances equated to those who want to take away personal autonomy (e.g. "to claim I cannot have an AI boyfriend means you are advocating for violence against me").

One has to actively defend and campaign for these things and not fall into a sense of it's all natural and inevitable.

Inevitability is a kind of psychological blindness. It's to be encouraged in some as it does actually work but it can give some pain when sight is restored.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#262
post #70

In the 90s a friend told me about the internet. And that he knows someone who is in a university and has access to it and can show us. An hour later, we were sitting in front of a computer in that university and watched his friend surfing the web. Clicking on links, receiving pages of text. Faster than one could read. In a nice layout. Even with images. And links to other pages. We were shocked. No printing, no shipp…

So how big was the library? If I understood correctly, it was a single file library (with hours worth of documentation)? Or did you go over all files of that library and copy it file by file?

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you claimed that AI was inevitable in the 80s and invested, or claimed people would be inevitably moving to VR 10 years ago - you would be shit out of luck. Zuck is still burning billions on it with nothing to show for it and a bad outlook. Even Apple tried it and hilariously missed the demand estimate. The only potential bailout for this tech is AR, but thats still years away from consumer market and widespread a…

None of the "failed" innovations you cited were even near the adoption rate of current LLMs. As much as I don't like it, this is the actual difference. LLMs are already good enough to be a very useful and widely spread technology. They can become even better, but even if they don't there are plenty of use cases for them. VR/AR, AI in the 80s and Tesla at the beginning were technology that someone believe could become…

> None of the "failed" innovations you cited were even near the adoption rate of current LLMs.

The 'adoption rate' of LLMs is entirely artificial, bolstered by billions of dollars of investment in attempting to get people addicted so that they can siphon money off of them with subscription plans or forcing them to pay for each use. The worst people you can think of on every c-suite team force pushes it down our throats because they use it to write an email every now and then.

The places LLMs have achieved widespread adoption is in environments abusing the addictive tendencies of a advanced stochastic parrot to appeal to lonely and vulnerable individuals to massive societal damage, by true believers that are the worst coders you can imagine shoveling shit into codebases by the truckful and by scammers realizing this is the new gold rush.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#264
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any code thats easy to define and tedious I just get AI's to do it now, and its awesome. Saves me so much work, though you have to read the code, it still puts in odd stuff sometimes.

How much of the code you are writing is tedious? If its a significant amount, the framework you are using could use some improvement.

Maybe? But it doesn't change the fact that most code written is tedious and repetitive and not particularly novel, except as part of one's own personal journey as a programmer.

I wrote my own frameworks as a kid, and I found that exciting. It helped me understand and accept frameworks written by others, and with actual adoption. Doesn't change the fact that none of that code is particularly original or insightful. It's mundane and done to death - like almost all almost every software company does.

Not seeing the tedium may be a sign of working on really interesting problems, or using excellent frameworks and support tooling - but I'd wager it's mostly a sign of inexperience.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#265
AI is being framed as the future because it is the future. If you can't see the writing on the wall then you surely have your head in the sand or are seeking out information to confirm your beliefs.

I've thought a lot about where this belief comes from, that belief being the general Hacker News skepticism towards AI and especially big tech's promotion and alignment with it in recent years. I believe it's due to fear of irrelevance and loss of control.

The general type I've seen most passionately dismissive of the utility of LLM's are veteran, highly "tech-for-tech's sake" software/hardware people, far closer Wozniak than Jobs on the Steve spectrum. These types typically earned their stripes working in narrow intersections of various mission-critical domains like open-source software, systems development, low-level languages, etc.

To these people, a generally capable all-purpose oracle capable of massive data ingestion and effortless inference represents a death knell to their relative status and value. AI's likely trajectory heralds a world where intelligence and technical ability are commodified and ubiquitous, robbing a sense purpose and security from those whose purpose and security depends on their position in a rare echelon of intellect.

This increasingly likely future is made all the more infuriating by the annoyances of the current reality of AI. The fact that AI is so presently inescapable despite how many glaring security-affecting flaws it causes, how much it propagates slop in the information commons, and how effectively it emboldens a particularly irksome brand of overconfidence in the VC world is preemptive insult to injury in the lead up a reality where AI will nevertheless control everything.

I can't believe these types I've seen on this site aren't smart enough to avoid seeing the forest for the trees on this matter. My Occam's razor conclusion is that most are smart enough, they just are emotionally invested in anticipating a future where the grand promises of AI will fizzle out and it will be back to business as usual. To many this is a salve necessary to remain reasonably sane.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#266

One of the negative consequences of the “modern secular age” is that many very intelligent, thoughtful people feel justified in brushing away millennia of philosophical and religious thought because they deem it outdated or no longer relevant. (The book A Secular Age is a great read on this, btw, I think I’ve recommended it here on HN at least half a dozen times.) And so a result of this is that they fail to notice t…

This is one of those types of comments to change one's whole world view.

> The notion that history is just on some inevitable pre-planned path is not a new idea, except now the actor has changed from God to technology.

I'm gonna fucking frame that. It goes hard

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#267
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that the data from actual research doesn't support your anecdotal proof of quality: - https://metr.org/blog/2025-07-10-early-2025-ai-experienced-o... - https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/29/ai_agents_fail_a_lot/ But more importantly, it makes you stupid: - https://www.404media.co/microsoft-study-finds-ai-makes-human... - https://archive.is/M3lCG And it's an unsustainable bubble and wishful thinking, muc…

All of those studies have been torn apart in detail, often right here on HN. > So while it may be a fun toy for senior devs that know what to look for, it actually makes them slower and stupider, making them progressively less capable to do their job and apply critical thinking skills. I've been able to tackle problems that I literally would not have been able to undertake w/o LLMs. LLMs are great at wading through S…

> All of those studies have been torn apart in detail, often right here on HN.

You mean the same Hacker News where everyone was suddenly an expert in epidemiology a few years ago and now can speak with authority to geopolitics?

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#268
post #70

In the 90s a friend told me about the internet. And that he knows someone who is in a university and has access to it and can show us. An hour later, we were sitting in front of a computer in that university and watched his friend surfing the web. Clicking on links, receiving pages of text. Faster than one could read. In a nice layout. Even with images. And links to other pages. We were shocked. No printing, no shipp…

Do we still need program source code?

One idea would be not to have the code as the result of your prompt, but the result itself.

Why not to let the environment do everything integrated, according to your prompt?

Else you have the disconnect between the prompt and the generated code. The generated code need to run somewhere, need to be integrated and maintained.

That stringdiff function is a part of the bigger environment.

So ultimately you should just be able to request your assistant to make sure all the work assigned to you is done properly, and then the assistant should report to the original requestor of the work done.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak with a passive voice, as if the future is something that happens to you, rather than something that you participate in.

There is an old cliché about stopping the tide coming in. I mean, yeah you can get out there and participate in trying to stop it. This isn't about fatalism or even pessimism. The tide coming in isn't good or bad. It's more like the refrain from Game of Thrones: Winter is coming. You prepare for it. Your time might be better served finding shelter and warm clothing rather than engaging in a futile attempt to prevent…

The last tide being the blockchain (hype), which was supposed to solve all and everyone's problems about a decade ago already.

How come there even is anything left to solve for LLMs?

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#270
post #70

In the 90s a friend told me about the internet. And that he knows someone who is in a university and has access to it and can show us. An hour later, we were sitting in front of a computer in that university and watched his friend surfing the web. Clicking on links, receiving pages of text. Faster than one could read. In a nice layout. Even with images. And links to other pages. We were shocked. No printing, no shipp…

You speak with a passive voice, as if the future is something that happens to you, rather than something that you participate in.

I have a parallel to suggest; I know it's the rhetorical tool of analogous reasoning, but it deeply matches the psychology of the way most people think. Just like getting to a "certain" number of activated parameters in a model (for some "simple" tasks like summarisation) can be as low as 1.8 billion, once that threshold is breached the "emergent" behaviour of "reasonable", "contextual", or "lucid" text is achieved; or to put this in layman's terms, once your model is "large enough" (and this is quite small compared to the largest models currently in daily use by millions) the generated text goes from jibberish to uncanny valley to lucid text quite quickly.

In the same way once a certain threshold is reached in the utility of AI (in a similar vein to the "once I saw the Internet for the first time I knew I would just keep using it") it becomes "inevitable"; it becomes a cheaper option than "the way we've always done it", a better option, or some combination of the two.

So, as is very common in technological innovation / revolution, the question isn't will it change the way things are done so much as where will it shift the cost curve? How deeply will it displace "the way we've always done it"? How many hand weaved shirts do you own? Joseph-Marie Jacquard wants to know (and King Cnut has metaphorical clogs to sell to the Luddites).

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