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The Collapse of the FDA

nytimes.com

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Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#11

Post by hinterlands »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #8

“FDA’s war on public health is about to end,” Kennedy wrote. “This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can’t be patented by Pharma." Anyone know what chelating compounds he is talking about…

It's about EDTA. It can be legitimately used to treat heavy metal poisoning, plus some other things. Some people (who are probably misguided) want to self-medicate. The FDA won't let you. Hence, drama.

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#12

Post by Metacelsus »

hinterlands wrote: post #11
clumsysmurf wrote: post #8

“FDA’s war on public health is about to end,” Kennedy wrote. “This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can’t be patented by Pharma." Anyone know what chelating compounds he is talking about…

It's about EDTA. It can be legitimately used to treat heavy metal poisoning, plus some other things. Some people (who are probably misguided) want to self-medicate. The FDA won't let you. Hence, drama.

yeah, because unless you legitimately have heavy metal poisoning, the side effects DEFINITELY aren't worth it

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#13

Post by King-Aaron »

stego-tech wrote: post #10
mcphage wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Don’t give the buffoon too much credit, as a lot of these weaknesses were engineered starting around Reagan (with Carter and Nixon also shouldering some, but far less overall, blame). Neoliberalism and its “invisible hand of the free market” alliance with Laissez-Faire Capitalism all but ensured the demise of institutions and social safety nets in the name of maximum profit for the moneyed classes. We built a Golden…

I see this argument of "oh it's been happening for a long time" getting thrown around a lot, and it feels like a really non-good-faith point of view that seems to ignore the administration directly targeting these institutions for destruction.

Yes, poor management is a big problem that could be seen as an intentional structural issue, but this is a totally different ball game that's being played right now.

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#14

Post by reactordev »

chung8123 wrote: post #7
mcphage wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Unfortunately I feel like we are just seeing the snap of these government agencies. They have been bending for a while. It will feel like 6 months but we have been on the path for a while and not one administration has decided to bite the bullet and turn course.

I was just saying this today. I’m originally from the DC bubble. It’s been bad for a LONG time. Entire companies designed to fight and win government contracts so that they can milk the government until retirement. SAIC comes to mind.

These agencies haven’t been able to do their actual jobs in ages. Trump is doing what he said he was going to do (unpopular as that is) and we’ll have to figure out how to build back better (or whatever that term was).

I don’t agree with anything he’s doing but I do see opportunities in it. If we can survive without these departments until then.

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#15

Post by Aloisius »

hinterlands wrote: post #11
clumsysmurf wrote: post #8

“FDA’s war on public health is about to end,” Kennedy wrote. “This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can’t be patented by Pharma." Anyone know what chelating compounds he is talking about…

It's about EDTA. It can be legitimately used to treat heavy metal poisoning, plus some other things. Some people (who are probably misguided) want to self-medicate. The FDA won't let you. Hence, drama.

Iron, copper, zinc, cobalt, manganese and selenium are "heavy metals."

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#16

Post by [deleted] »

King-Aaron wrote: post #13
stego-tech wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t give the buffoon too much credit, as a lot of these weaknesses were engineered starting around Reagan (with Carter and Nixon also shouldering some, but far less overall, blame). Neoliberalism and its “invisible hand of the free market” alliance with Laissez-Faire Capitalism all but ensured the demise of institutions and social safety nets in the name of maximum profit for the moneyed classes. We built a Golden…

I see this argument of "oh it's been happening for a long time" getting thrown around a lot, and it feels like a really non-good-faith point of view that seems to ignore the administration directly targeting these institutions for destruction. Yes, poor management is a big problem that could be seen as an intentional structural issue, but this is a totally different ball game that's being played right now.

[deleted]

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#17

Post by cosmicgadget »

dmm wrote: post #9

Reading "Bottle of Lies" by Katherine Eban, I'd argue that the collapse of the FDA was well underway before the current administration. The FDA was completely unable to regulate overseas drug manufacturers, resulting in many, many problems. Sincere attempts to inspect overseas drug makers with random inspections universally results in shutdowns, which cause politically unpopular drug shortages, making enforcement pol…

That seems more like an "underfunded and underjurisdictioned" problem for a portion of what they do, rather than collapse of the agency.

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#18

Post by weq »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #8

“FDA’s war on public health is about to end,” Kennedy wrote. “This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can’t be patented by Pharma." Anyone know what chelating compounds he is talking about…

[flagged]

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#19

Post by hinterlands »

Metacelsus wrote: post #12
hinterlands wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about EDTA. It can be legitimately used to treat heavy metal poisoning, plus some other things. Some people (who are probably misguided) want to self-medicate. The FDA won't let you. Hence, drama.

yeah, because unless you legitimately have heavy metal poisoning, the side effects DEFINITELY aren't worth it

Probably, but the process doesn't work that way. The default is that you can't sell medication to people, period. Some pharmaceutical company applied to have a specific form of EDTA approved as a prescription drug, and that was that.

Separately from this, substances that meet the criteria of being "natural" can be sold as supplements as long as you don't claim they cure anything. EDTA is naturally-occurring and you can buy it as a supplement in the US, although the FDA has some beef with this, which I think is what the original remark might be alluding to.

EDTA is also a common food additive and a laboratory reagent, so people who want to use it can buy it easily, which makes the whole debate basically performance art.

Re: The Collapse of the FDA

#20

Post by sorcerer-mar »

dmm wrote: post #9

Reading "Bottle of Lies" by Katherine Eban, I'd argue that the collapse of the FDA was well underway before the current administration. The FDA was completely unable to regulate overseas drug manufacturers, resulting in many, many problems. Sincere attempts to inspect overseas drug makers with random inspections universally results in shutdowns, which cause politically unpopular drug shortages, making enforcement pol…

Sooo that sounds like there's a whole lot of ways for it to get way, way, way worse.

The existence of problems does not imply there cannot be more plentiful, more diverse, and more severe problems in the near future.

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