Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 229 posts

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#111

Post by mtgx »

elehack wrote: post #93
eevilspock wrote: post #7

I think iOS is better than Android. I support the idea of a walled garden in principle (as long as it isn't a monopoly, and in this case it isn't. People can choose Android or others). But the free flow of honest information is fundamental to democracy. This is stupid and gutless editorial censorship on Apple's part (unless there's some detail about this story that I'm missing). I hope someone higher up sees this, re…

I think that this kind of abuse is an irresistable temptation of a walled garden. If the garden's curators don't succumb to it themselves, the single-point-of-pressure is too much of a temptation to would-be government or external private sector censors. When dealing with situations like this, we have a couple options. We can accept walled gardens and hope that the gardeners are made of stern stuff and love freedom.…

Exactly. Didn't some senator asked Apple to remove some app in the early days? When Apple acts like this with their store, it's almost irresistible for the Government to ask them to remove some other apps they don't like either.

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#112

Post by ralfd »

rickmb wrote: post #42

As an Apple fanboy, I've been able to rationalize everything Apple has done concerning the app-store up to now, even if I personally would have like to have seen a way more open and liberal approach. And the overblown anti-Apple FUD, using misplaced terms like "censorship" and "monopoly" whenever an app was thwarted by Apples opaque policies has made it easy to ignore the objections of detractors. But I find it impos…

That said, why has simplistic stuff like this to be an App? You could implement that in an email newsletter, a Twitter account, an RSS feed. An old-fashioned web site.

> politically motivated rejection

Probably that is the reason. But when I first heard of that App I did think of "torture porn". You practically track the death of people. How is that App used? Imagine being at lunch and you get a new notification. What do you do with that kind of Information? Why do you want that? Certainly not to grief, because it would desensitize you. I imagine the people who would install it (and leave it installed) would be from the opposite side of the spectrum and militaristic nuts: "Hell yeah, another 7 terrorist brownies taken down!"

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#113

Post by msh »

kalininalex wrote: post #87
randomdata wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how a password can validate a person's age and I had a credit card long before I was 18.

"I had a credit card long before I was 18" And this is a different problem that also needs to solved.

Depends a lot on what you mean by credit card, stuff like Visa Electron is called a credit card by visa but it is actually a debit card that is impossible to overdraft.

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#114

Post by chimeracoder »

philwelch wrote: post #100
stephengillie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google decides to only allow installs from their market, someone will just fork android and change that.

And how will that fork get on any phones for customers to use? "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here.

> "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here.

Well, it's not feasible as long as bootloaders remain encrypted/non-unlockable. That's the problem with restricting the software that can run on hardware after the user has purchased the hardware and owns it.

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#115

Post by eevilspock »

mcantelon wrote: post #82
klawed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has never stated that the purpose of the appstore is to support democracy. And I think it would be hard to argue that the availability of apps (or lack thereof) in Apple's store, which is not even close to a monopoly, has any impact on democracy. I think what's really going on here is that Apple wants to avoid providing apps that might be politically divisive. EDIT: qualifying availability of apps as within App…

>I think what's really going on here is that Apple wants to avoid providing apps that might be politically divisive. That's called "censorship". Apple's store has an impact on democracy because Apple is very influential and other companies are likely to imitate their policies. Lots of young people are getting exposed to Apple's flavor of personal computer so, to them, censorship of software will seem normal.

Newspapers are very influential, more so than Apple. Will you claim that they should print all letters to the editor, with no discretion?

How about Hacker News? Shall we lobby pg to remove the ability to flag an article, and let this place turn into Reddit?

Yesterday an article I liked had a healthy debate going. It was flagged as not fit for HN (It was political, about race not technology in any way) and it was taken off. I was initially annoyed but I agree with the decision. Isn't there a benefit to having distinction (HN vs Reddit), or choice as all the Android fans preach?

[Please read my other comments before you assume I agree with Apple's decision here.]

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#116

Post by eevilspock »

RobotCaleb wrote: post #38
eevilspock wrote: post #7

I think iOS is better than Android. I support the idea of a walled garden in principle (as long as it isn't a monopoly, and in this case it isn't. People can choose Android or others). But the free flow of honest information is fundamental to democracy. This is stupid and gutless editorial censorship on Apple's part (unless there's some detail about this story that I'm missing). I hope someone higher up sees this, re…

Why did you open with that sentence? Were you replying to someone or just trying to instigate an argument?

I was trying to show that even though I prefer Apple's product and even though I think the walled garden is a legitimate idea, I think in this instance (and many others) Apple is being stupid and cowardly.

Most people on HN, probably with good reason, assume that people take sides in a specific argument based on their Android-Apple loyalty.

[I don't distrust Apple's intent any more than I do any other profit-driven business (i.e. Google is included). Apple has many times owned up to their app rejection mistakes. See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4454530]

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#118

Post by chimeracoder »

rickmb wrote: post #110
lukeschlather wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the first time that Apple has rejected an app on purely political grounds. This may be the first time they've removed something and offended liberal/libertarian sensibilities, but a couple clear examples from a while back: http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/apple-manhattan-dec...

And this illustrates exactly why I haven't taken most of the attacks on Apple seriously up to now. Hatred an bigotry aren't "purely political". The fact that certain sick fucks leverage those sentiment for political gain doesn't change that. You can ban apps that are hateful and bigoted for that reason only, without it being a political statement. This is very different from the drone strike app, which is not objecti…

I was actually remarkably offended when they removed the former app. Exodus is wrong and ex-gay conversion violates APA guidelines, but that doesn't make the app inherently bigoted, which is a remarkably weighty term that I'd prefer leave reserved for people like the Westboro Baptist Church.

Exodus claims to 'provide support' for people who want to 'recover' from homosexuality. Predatory? Misleading? Sure. Immoral? I'd say so.

But unlike homophobes, I don't agree with censoring speech that I disagree with and forcing my beliefs on other people.

I'd much rather let the app stand, have it receive 1-star ratings, have alternate competing apps (ie, from pro-gay groups) come up in the search results, etc.

Why? Because I'm certain I'm right and that ex-gay conversion is wrong, and I'm certain that, if the truth and the lies are laid out side-by-side in the plain light of day, eventually, the truth will prove itself.

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#119

Post by MrMember »

enraged_camel wrote: post #66
dlikhten wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android FTW. I know this pops up constantly, but this is EXACTLY the reason I advocate for android. This sort of shit does not fly there. Apple has the ability to censor which even the government can't and worse is that it's fully legal. I really wish people would take these stories as a sign that we need to focus on the android market. FWIW: I am not advocating for the baby & bathwater argument. I think we must focu…

While this is true, security is a massive concern. Just look at how many malicious apps were in the Android store just last year, vs. in the Apple store.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but if someone downloads a clearly sketchy looking app (DOWNLOAD FREE MP3S) I have no sympathy for them when it ends up being malicious.

Just like I wouldn't pick up a candy bar off the street and eat it, I wouldn't download a disreputable looking app. Common sense.

Re: Apple Rejects App That Tracks U.S. Drone Strikes

#120

Post by chimeracoder »

nextstep wrote: post #76

"About two weeks later, on July 23, Apple told him was just too blah." What is this supposed to say?

I came here to see if anybody else noticed this too.

The only thing I can think of is an oversight by a lazy copy editor, just like the occasional [TK] that slips into print.

Though this is becoming increasingly rare, both because the [TK] notation is losing popularity, and because having copy editors at all is also losing popularity....

Post reply on HN