Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Death by a Thousand Slops

daniel.haxx.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 149 posts

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#121

Post by ta8645 »

latexr wrote: post #116
ta8645 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you're failing to understand that people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

> people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing. Of course, that could definitely happen. My point is that I don’t think it did in this case, and that it stretched the analogy so far beyond its major points, that it made it clear to me a pat…

There was no distortion. You seem to want people to only take the desired implication, and not think too much more about it. But if you instead think for a second, you'll see that the analogy was crafted to send a message that is incorrect and limited. Rather than trying to create better analogies to handcuff a reader into your viewpoint, you might instead stop for a moment and see why this analogy wasn't actually as insightful as it might appear at first glance. And maybe even appreciate how my response shed light about that limitation. There are indeed people who get great entertainment out of machines that do heavy lifting, and they don't care how much a person can lift.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#122

Post by ta8645 »

Henchman21 wrote: post #114
ta8645 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you're failing to understand that people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

A deliberate misreading is not the same as engaging with the analogy in good faith and your reply here seems to indicate that you’ve done the former while simultaneously engaging in some name calling.

What name calling?

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#123

Post by vincnetas »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #6

Oh god, going through some of the reports listed on the bottom of the page feels like a nightmare. I cannot imagine how it is for the actual maintainers. I wonder what's the solution here. You need to be able to receive reports from anyone, so a reputation based system is not applicable. It also seems like we cannot detect whether a piece of text was generated with LLM..

Why reputation is not applicable. Arrange for whitelist off-channel and then submit your requests. I think that reputation and non-anonymity is the only applicable way forward.

And when i say "non-anonymity" i don't mean "public". You can be non-anonymous with one person not the whole world.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#124

Post by mort96 »

DaSHacka wrote: post #25
leovingi wrote: post #17

And it's not just vulnerability reports that are affected by this general trend. I use social media, X specifically, to follow a lot of artists, mostly for inspiration and because I find it fun to share some of the work that other artists have created, but over the past year or so I find that the mental workload it takes for me to figure out if a particular piece of art is AI-generated is too much and I start leaning…

Genuine question; if you cant tell, why does it matter?

It's tantamount to sharing a forgery and not caring because you "can't tell".

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#125

Post by aDyslecticCrow »

latexr wrote: post #107
aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of what makes art fun is human effort and show of skill. People post AI art to take credit for being a skilled artist, just like people posting others art as their own. Its lame. If I am to be a bit controversial among artists; we're exposed to so much good art today that most art posted online is "average" at best. (The bar is so high that it takes 20+ years to become above average for most) Its average even if…

To continue your point, following the human doing it is also infinitely more rewarding because you can witness their progress.

Definitely very fun...

But I think thats less generally applicable. There is alot of the online art community and market that is really circular; people who like art do art and buy/commission art from others they follow and know.

That market will likley never disappear even if AI fully surpass humans; because the specific humans were the point all along.

But I think my previous comment applies more broadly beyond that community.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#126

Post by ElFitz »

javcasas wrote: post #98
ElFitz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough, fecal transplants (Fecal Microbiota Transplants, FMT) are a thing, used to help treat a range of diseases. It’s even being investigated to help treat depression. So…

I'm sure it does. But would you like one every other week like the llm slop?

Honestly, regarding the whole "LLM slop" thing, I don’t care. I get why others do, but I just don’t.

I don’t care how that sausage is made. Heck, sometimes gen AI even allows people who otherwise wouldn’t have had the time or skills to come up with funny things.

What annoys me is all the spam SEO-gamed websites with low information density drowning the answer I’m actually looking for in pages of empty sentences.

When they haven’t just gamed their way to the top of search results without actually containing any answer.

And that didn’t need LLMs to exist. Just greed and actors with interests unaligned with mine. Such as Google’s former head of ads, apparently. [0][1]

[0]: https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

[1]: https://www.wheresyoured.at/requiem-for-raghavan/

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#127

Post by latexr »

ta8645 wrote: post #121
latexr wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing. Of course, that could definitely happen. My point is that I don’t think it did in this case, and that it stretched the analogy so far beyond its major points, that it made it clear to me a pat…

There was no distortion. You seem to want people to only take the desired implication, and not think too much more about it. But if you instead think for a second, you'll see that the analogy was crafted to send a message that is incorrect and limited. Rather than trying to create better analogies to handcuff a reader into your viewpoint, you might instead stop for a moment and see why this analogy wasn't actually as…

> the analogy was crafted to send a message that is (…) limited.

All analogies are limited. That’s the point of an analogy: to focus on a shared element.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/978019...

> There are indeed people who get great entertainment out of machines that do heavy lifting, and they don't care how much a person can lift.

But crucially not the person making the analogy. They didn’t say a lifting machine would be uninteresting to everyone, only that it isn’t worth their (the commenter’s) time. They made an analogy to explain what they themselves think, not to push their point of view as ultimate universal truth.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#128

Post by cesarb »

latexr wrote: post #93
ta8645 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Komatsu forklift doing the same is not ... [worthy of attention] It is, if you're managing a warehouse; then it's a wonderful marvel. And it is a hidden benefit to everyone who receives cheaper products from that warehouse. Nobody cares if it's a human or the Komatsu doing the heavy lifting.

You just made me realise why many people have trouble with analogies, to the point it seems they are arguing in bad faith. You have to consider the context the analogy is being applied to . It is patently obvious (though clearly not to every one) that the person you’re replying to is describing a situation of seeing a human weightlifter VS a mechanical forklift doing the same in a contest, for entertainment . The ana…

> You have to consider the context the analogy is being applied to.

But that particular reply did not constrain itself to the context. It implied that a forklift lifting 150kg is not interesting at all. Which offends those of us who do appreciate watching heavy machinery do its work. That explains the unavoidable kneejerk replies of "actually, it is [interesting]".

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#129

Post by ta8645 »

latexr wrote: post #127
ta8645 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no distortion. You seem to want people to only take the desired implication, and not think too much more about it. But if you instead think for a second, you'll see that the analogy was crafted to send a message that is incorrect and limited. Rather than trying to create better analogies to handcuff a reader into your viewpoint, you might instead stop for a moment and see why this analogy wasn't actually as…

> the analogy was crafted to send a message that is (…) limited. All analogies are limited. That’s the point of an analogy: to focus on a shared element . https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/978019... > There are indeed people who get great entertainment out of machines that do heavy lifting, and they don't care how much a person can lift. But crucially not the person making the analogy . They didn’…

And my reply was to expand the context to show that there are people who feel otherwise. And yet you insist that my opinion is illegitimate and a "distortion". You've dug your heels in, and refuse to see that you had blinders on.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#130

Post by konsalexee »

nkrisc wrote: post #34
Keyframe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that you pay for both.

Not even the mafia has it that good. You only pay them so they won’t beat you up. Imagine if you paid them to beat you up and then paid them to protect you from them.

That's how you profit
Post reply on HN