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Death by a Thousand Slops

daniel.haxx.se

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Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#111

Post by ta8645 »

latexr wrote: post #93
ta8645 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Komatsu forklift doing the same is not ... [worthy of attention] It is, if you're managing a warehouse; then it's a wonderful marvel. And it is a hidden benefit to everyone who receives cheaper products from that warehouse. Nobody cares if it's a human or the Komatsu doing the heavy lifting.

You just made me realise why many people have trouble with analogies, to the point it seems they are arguing in bad faith. You have to consider the context the analogy is being applied to . It is patently obvious (though clearly not to every one) that the person you’re replying to is describing a situation of seeing a human weightlifter VS a mechanical forklift doing the same in a contest, for entertainment . The ana…

And you're failing to understand that people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#112

Post by grishka »

Aurornis wrote: post #83
raywatcher wrote: post #5

For all the discussions about the slopification of the internet, the human toll on open source maintainers isn’t really talked about. It's one thing to get flooded with bad reports; it's another to have to mentally filter AI-generated submissions designed to "sound correct" but offer no real value. Totally agree with the author mentioning the emotional toll it takes to deal with these mind-numbing stupidities.

The most notable thing about this article, in my opinion, is the increase in human generated slop. Everyone is talking about AI in the comments, but the article estimates only 20% of their submissions are AI slop. The rest are from people who want a curl contribution or bug report for their resume. With all of the talk about open source contributions as a way to boost your career or get a job, getting open source con…

Reminds me of those "I updated your dependencies/build system version" and "I reformatted your code" kinds of PRs I got several times for my projects. Yeah, okay, you did this very trivial thing. But didn't you stop to think about the fact that if it's so trivial, there must be a reason I haven't done it myself? "It already works as is" is a valid reason too.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#113

Post by disqard »

> You still have not told us on which source code line the buffer overflow occurs.

> > hey chat, give this in a nice way so I reply on hackerone with this comment

> This looks like you accidentally pasted a part of your AI chat conversation into this issue, even though you have not disclosed that you're using an AI even after having been asked multiple times.

A sample of what they have to deal with. Source:

https://hackerone.com/reports/3230082

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#114

Post by Henchman21 »

ta8645 wrote: post #111
latexr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just made me realise why many people have trouble with analogies, to the point it seems they are arguing in bad faith. You have to consider the context the analogy is being applied to . It is patently obvious (though clearly not to every one) that the person you’re replying to is describing a situation of seeing a human weightlifter VS a mechanical forklift doing the same in a contest, for entertainment . The ana…

And you're failing to understand that people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

A deliberate misreading is not the same as engaging with the analogy in good faith and your reply here seems to indicate that you’ve done the former while simultaneously engaging in some name calling.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#115

Post by [deleted] »

ta8645 wrote: post #111
latexr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just made me realise why many people have trouble with analogies, to the point it seems they are arguing in bad faith. You have to consider the context the analogy is being applied to . It is patently obvious (though clearly not to every one) that the person you’re replying to is describing a situation of seeing a human weightlifter VS a mechanical forklift doing the same in a contest, for entertainment . The ana…

And you're failing to understand that people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

[deleted]

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#116

Post by latexr »

ta8645 wrote: post #111
latexr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just made me realise why many people have trouble with analogies, to the point it seems they are arguing in bad faith. You have to consider the context the analogy is being applied to . It is patently obvious (though clearly not to every one) that the person you’re replying to is describing a situation of seeing a human weightlifter VS a mechanical forklift doing the same in a contest, for entertainment . The ana…

And you're failing to understand that people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

> people can understand the analogy, and think that it fails to capture the entire situation, and so extend the analogy to make it obvious (although clearly not to everyone) that the analogy is lacking, and not very convincing.

Of course, that could definitely happen. My point is that I don’t think it did in this case, and that it stretched the analogy so far beyond its major points, that it made it clear to me a pattern that I have seen several times before but could never pinpoint clearly.

I am grateful to that comment for the insight. Understanding how people may distort analogies will force me to create better ones for more productive discussions.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#117

Post by xg15 »

IsTom wrote: post #84

You could require that submissions include an expletive or anything else that LLMs are sanitized to not produce. With how lazy these people are that ought to filter out at least some of them.

They are lazy up until they lose money if they don't do something. So if this was the only way to submit the reports, they'll find a way to prompt-hack the LLM to produce the expletive.

...or, just add it to the generated text themselves.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#118

Post by xg15 »

anthonyryan1 wrote: post #59

As the only developer maintaining a big bounty program. I believe they are all trending downward. I've recently cut bounties to zero for all but the most severe issues, hoping to refocus the program on rewarding interesting findings instead of the low value reports. So far it's done nothing to improve the situation, because nobody appears to read the rewards information before emailing. I think reading scope/rewards…

Putting on my tinfoil hat, I wonder if some of that slop might be coming from actual black-hat groups or state actors - who have an interest in making it harder to find and close real exploits.

Those people wouldn't care about the bounty, overwhelming the system would be the point.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#119

Post by Aurornis »

grishka wrote: post #112
Aurornis wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most notable thing about this article, in my opinion, is the increase in human generated slop. Everyone is talking about AI in the comments, but the article estimates only 20% of their submissions are AI slop. The rest are from people who want a curl contribution or bug report for their resume. With all of the talk about open source contributions as a way to boost your career or get a job, getting open source con…

Reminds me of those "I updated your dependencies/build system version" and "I reformatted your code" kinds of PRs I got several times for my projects. Yeah, okay, you did this very trivial thing. But didn't you stop to think about the fact that if it's so trivial, there must be a reason I haven't done it myself? "It already works as is" is a valid reason too.

I often update README files or documentation comments and submit PRs when I find incorrect documentation.

I’ve had mixed results. Most maintainers are happy to receive a well formatted update to their documentation. Some get angry at me for submitting non-code updates. It’s weird

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#120

Post by toshinoriyagi »

disqard wrote: post #113

> You still have not told us on which source code line the buffer overflow occurs. > > hey chat, give this in a nice way so I reply on hackerone with this comment > This looks like you accidentally pasted a part of your AI chat conversation into this issue, even though you have not disclosed that you're using an AI even after having been asked multiple times. A sample of what they have to deal with. Source: https://h…

The abuse of AI here blows my mind. Not just the use of AI to try to find a vulnerability in a widely-used repo, but the complete ignorance when using the AI.

"hey chat, give this in a nice way so I reply on hackerone with this comment" is not language used naturally. It virtually never precedes high-quality conversation between humans so you aren't going to get that. You would only say this when prompting an LLM (poorly at that) so you are activating weights encoding information from LLM slop in the training data.

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