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Death by a Thousand Slops

daniel.haxx.se

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Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#101

Post by javcasas »

ndepoel wrote: post #35
friedel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but offer no real value They could offer value, but just rarely, at least with the LLM/model/context they used. > toll it takes to deal with these mind-numbing stupidities. Could have a special area for submitting these where AI does the rejection letter and banning.

> They could offer value, but just rarely, at least with the LLM/model/context they used. Still a net negative overall, given that you have to spend a lot of effort separating the wheat from the chaff. > Could have a special area for submitting these where AI does the rejection letter and banning. So we'll just have one AI talking to another AI with an indeterminate outcome and nobody learns anything of value. Truly…

It can be better. On slop detection, shadowban the offender and have it discuss with two AI "maintainers", and after 30 messages go and reveal the ruse. Then ban.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#102

Post by Expurple »

bit1993 wrote: post #89

AI slop is rapidly destroying the WWW, most of the content is becoming more and more low-quality and difficult to tell if its true or hallucinated. Pre-AI web content is now more like the golden-standard in terms of correctness, browsing the Internet Archive is much better. This will only cause content to go behind pay-walls, allot of open-source projects will be closed source not only because of the increased work m…

Permissively-licensed projects (which is the majority or FOSS projects out there) could always be re-licensed to proprietary. I publish most of my code under permissive licences and will continue doing that. LLM training doesn't really change anything for me

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#103

Post by the_snooze »

__bjoernd wrote: post #53
IAmLiterallyAB wrote: post #29

Minimum reputation to submit might help

How do I gather reputation to submit without being able to submit something?

Probably the same as in any other high-trust human interaction: you have to have someone on the inside introduce you and vouch for you.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#105

Post by soyyo »

Of the 21 reports included as an example i have looked at number two, Buffer Overflow Vulnerability in WebSocket Handling #2298307

The style is obviously gpt generated and I think the curl team knows that, still they proceed to answer and keep making questions about the report to its author to get more info.

It really bothers me is that these idiots are consuming the time and patience of nice and reasonable people, I really hope the can find a solution and don't eventually snap by having to deal with this bullshit.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#106

Post by meindnoch »

anon191928 wrote: post #37
raywatcher wrote: post #5

For all the discussions about the slopification of the internet, the human toll on open source maintainers isn’t really talked about. It's one thing to get flooded with bad reports; it's another to have to mentally filter AI-generated submissions designed to "sound correct" but offer no real value. Totally agree with the author mentioning the emotional toll it takes to deal with these mind-numbing stupidities.

this type of social moderation exist well over decade and FB had thousands of people hired for these. They were filtering liveleak level or even worse type of content for years with human manually watching or flagging the content. So nothing new.

My gut tells me that deciding the soundness of a vulnerability report is not in the same complexity class as deciding whether a video showing ISIS torture footage.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#107

Post by latexr »

aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #55
DaSHacka wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question; if you cant tell, why does it matter?

Much of what makes art fun is human effort and show of skill. People post AI art to take credit for being a skilled artist, just like people posting others art as their own. Its lame. If I am to be a bit controversial among artists; we're exposed to so much good art today that most art posted online is "average" at best. (The bar is so high that it takes 20+ years to become above average for most) Its average even if…

To continue your point, following the human doing it is also infinitely more rewarding because you can witness their progress.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#108

Post by lysace »

amiga386 wrote: post #95
lysace wrote: post #12

Sort of separate but perhaps also relevant to the thousands cuts/slops: Isn't the scope of curl/libcurl a bit too big? It supports almost every file-related networking protocol under the sun and a few more just for fun. ( https://everything.curl.dev/protocols/curl.html ) Meanwhile 99.8% of users (assuming) just use it for HTTP. Here's a few complex protocols I bet many do not know that curl supports: - SMB - IMAP - L…

You can always use another library with more limited use-cases if you're worried about scope. There are thousands of libraries for making HTTP requests, many of which are language-specific and much more ergonomic than libcurl. However, curl/libcurl would cripple itself and alienate a good portion of its userbase if it stopped supporting so many protcols, and specific features of protocols. There's a similar argument…

I think there is a solid argument to be made that less than one in a thousand of curl users ever use anything besides HTTP/S.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#109

Post by npteljes »

DaSHacka wrote: post #25
leovingi wrote: post #17

And it's not just vulnerability reports that are affected by this general trend. I use social media, X specifically, to follow a lot of artists, mostly for inspiration and because I find it fun to share some of the work that other artists have created, but over the past year or so I find that the mental workload it takes for me to figure out if a particular piece of art is AI-generated is too much and I start leaning…

Genuine question; if you cant tell, why does it matter?

One of the reasons why people react so badly to AI art is because they encounter it in a context that implies human art. Then the discovery becomes treachery, a breach of trust. Not too much unlike having sex lovingly, only to discover that there was no love at all. Or people being nice to someone, but not meaning it, and them finding this out.

It's about implications, and trust. Note how AI art is thriving on platforms where it's clearly marked as such. People then can go into it by not having the "hand crafted" expectation, and enjoying it fully for what it is. AI-enabling subreddits and Pixiv comes to mind for example.

Re: Death by a Thousand Slops

#110

Post by npteljes »

ta8645 wrote: post #57
meindnoch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An olympic weightlifter doing clean and jerk with 150kg is worthy of my attention. A Komatsu forklift doing the same is not.

> A Komatsu forklift doing the same is not ... [worthy of attention] It is, if you're managing a warehouse; then it's a wonderful marvel. And it is a hidden benefit to everyone who receives cheaper products from that warehouse. Nobody cares if it's a human or the Komatsu doing the heavy lifting.

I think this is actually a good counterpoint to something that OP missed. It's not that it's not great that a Komatsu can also do it. Both are great. But we need to have the appropriate expectations, to end up with the feeling of appreciation. In the AI case, the art looks like "human art", and often it's also presented as such. Then, learning that actually AI did it is akin to betrayal. But actually people like to appreciate a whole lot of artful things that people didn't, or only partially "did": electronic music, the sounds and visuals of nature, emergent behavior of things like the game of life, visual output of algorithms, and so on.
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