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Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

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Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#51
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that I know better. Yet I have to say that if you are correct, the term is no different than eating tide pods or dry swallowing cinnamon. Why tf would anyone impose such an absurd artificial constraint on themselves, on the tool, or on whatever they are trying to build? Good faith question, I promise. Constructing detailed prompts to ultimately pair program impressive, complex outcomes…

> Yet I have to say that if you are correct, the term is no different than eating tide pods or dry swallowing cinnamon. Why tf would anyone impose such an absurd artificial constraint on themselves, on the tool, or on whatever they are trying to build? Good faith question, I promise. IDK! I don't think Vibe Coding, with the definition that I understand, is a good idea. But the term comes from here: https://x.com/karp…

Wild.

I appreciate the explanation. Off to get some cinnamon, I suppose.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#52

Yeah ... Except that: - no parts placement - no routing Easily the two hardest / annoying steps in designing such a straightforward board.

Autorouter works. Tho i don’t use it for anything complex, as the results are middling at best.

Parts placement could be automated, but you’d have to tell something what you wanted and at that point might as well just do the placement instead of describing placement requirements.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#53
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traces for the power lines are extremely thin, this device may suffer issues related to that. These devices pull a lot of power when Wifi is on, and too-thin traces aren't going to help that. Depending on the device, those traces might act like a fuse (and go poof), and I can imagine there could be plenty of other issues that could lead to fires from a "vibe coded" PCB.

There is no shortage (pun intended) of dangerously bad electronics out there already. If that’s what you want to prevent, finger wagging at ai coding for electronics isn’t going to help - but regulations and certification requirements might

Most mass produced electronics aren't vibe-coded hallucinations. There is at least some level of attention to detail in most of it, but of course there's still plenty of dangerous crap out there.

I don't care about this one example project, but when thousands of people read about it and vibe-code their own hallucinated PCB, hopefully wasting their money is the worst thing that happens. They certainly won't be learning much if the AI does it for them. They also don't get the pride that comes from understanding. They are an imposter, and when someone asks if they made the thing, they will feel like an imposter. Nice job, noob!

I'm active in the world of amateur LED installations, and practically nobody realizes how easy it is to start a fire with a 500 watt power supply (or several of them connected together in bad ways) for their holiday lightshow. "AI" is not likely to help that and will probably make it worse.

"AI" is like the blind leading the blind, and it gives people permission to do the stupidest things. Sometimes it's right, but it's a gamble. It's not going to always give the same answer for the same question, and when it "hallucinates", a noob is unlikely to notice.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#54
post #40

> Initially, everything looked great. The build succeeded, all components were found and added. But when I opened KiCad… nothing was wired up. Maybe this is pedantic, but I thought that the core point of "Vibe Coding" is that you do not look at the code . You "give in to the 'vibes'". I don't know how to translate it into a physical hardware product exactly, but I think it would be manufacturing it without looking at…

That's how Karpathy defined it - it's throwing and rethrowing it back to the LLM agent until you have a result that roughly matches the goal.

It's the behaviorism of programming. (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain).

Personally I use the term "agentic coding" if you are high leveling describing the specs to the LLM agent but still taking some minimal amount of time to review the diffs.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#55

The days of fiverr and similar are seriously numbered. Llms will not replace the top 10% of talent but the rest will die off over time

Could you please stop posting in this rapid-fire, inflammatory style you've been posting in for the past few days? Your comment history is a steady stream of these low-substance, sensationalist quips about divisive topics, sometimes not even bothering to finish with a full-stop (which is a hallmark of a low-effort comment).

We need that to stop if you're going to keep commenting here. HN is a place for thoughtful discussion, and it's only a place where people want to participate because others make an effort to keep the standards up. Commenting in this style is not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, LLMs can generate prompt files too. Sure, but the utility of that for PCB design wasn't demonstrated in the article. This is an expert going out of his way to give the LLM a task it can't fumble (and still does, a bit).

> Sure, but the utility of that for PCB design wasn't demonstrated in the article. Forget about the article. Try it yourself. Set aside 5 or 10 minutes to ask any LLM of your choice to generate a LLM prompt to generate PCBs. Iterate over your prompt before using it to generate your PCB. See the result for yourself.

Yeah, it's trash. Just as one would expect.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#57
post #15

Can’t wait for cheap vibe coded electronics to flood Amazon and burn houses down.

Hah, don't need LLMs for that.

Amazon has been hiding behind "it's a marketplace" for more than a decade. There's an insane amount of shit that should never be sold. Including, but not limited to, fake fire alarms sold as real ones. The CPSC tried going after Amazon but are stuck only going after listings once in awhile. I can't imagine the deaths caused by Amazon are only in the single digits.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#58

While I think that AI tools can be quite useful for coding, PCB design, and other tasks like that, the setup of this experiment makes it really hard for the LLM to fail. The author's prompt is basically already a meticulous specification of the PCB, even proactively telling the LLM to avoid certain pitfalls ("GPIO19 and GPIO20 on the ESP32-S3 module are USB D- and D+ respectively. Make sure these nets are labeled cor…

It seems that "vibe X" just means "using LLMs" now, regardless of what the original intent of the term was.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#59
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong, but that looks like autoroute to me just based on the aesthetics of it, autoroute has a bit of a "smell" that you can recognize if you pay attention. For example see the via and traces to the left of SW2. No human I know, even a total noob designing their first ever PCB, would do that. Also, it certainly wasn't the LLM; atopile doesn't allow you to specify routing as far as I'm aware, their docs see…

> even a total noob designing their first ever PCB As said noob, do you have any resources for basic PCB design/routing? Along the lines of a simple list of things to look out for? I've only ever done one, and for routing I basically did the "make two ground pours, then keep clicking until everything is connected" process that others have described in this thread. Probably about the same as I'd imagine an autorouter…

There are some absolute masters of PCB design on this site, I am far below that level, so take this all with a heap of salt. A lot of what follows is generally good advice but not everything is universally applicable.

Basics: learn to use your EDA software, properly configure it with your board house's capabilities, get correct footprints, read and re-read and re-re-read the datasheets for everything you use. Study other similar designs and try to understand everything they're doing and _why_.

- Place mounting holes and critical components first. Tiny boards and tiny components look bigger on-screen, zoom out to 1:1 real life scale as a sanity check!

- Use as many of the largest decoupling caps you can get. You don’t need multiple caps in different sizes; this comes from the old days of leaded caps when parasitics would be bad

- For power: use planes when possible; use a trace width calculator; always have a ground plane.

- Generally speaking, use the widest traces you can.

- There is a huge asterisk on this one, but most traces should be made as short as possible. Decoupling caps should be super close to where they're needed. This is one of the more common noob mistakes, but it can also lead you astray (making overly complex or compact PCBs on the first try.)

- Do not put capacitors or inductors close to the edges of a board, they will fail because of flexing!

- Check clearance between parts for pick and place and hand-soldered parts

- Always run DRC checks (there are also secondary DRC check tool websites/downloads aside from the one in your EDA software)

- Before sending it off, manually check for obvious common blunders (forgot the ground plane, no copper pour on ground plane, dead short, forgot to drill holes, wrong units, used the wrong footprints) - manually measure a few things on your design including footprints and pad sizes and cross reference this with an independent source. Check your files in different gerber viewers and hand-trace through the copper path from one component to the next. Visually preview the PCB and ensure you're not missing any copper anywhere.

- Don’t make things as small as possible right away! Make it big, test points, connectors, break out sketchy features into daughterboards etc, then shrink when it works

Beyond the basics:

- Understand your components. There are countless types of resistors and capacitors, to say nothing of the other component types. Getting more advanced, try to understand the various types, their lifespans, failure modes, heat tolerance. Pay attention to physical component sizes, if some capacitors of type X and rating Y are one volume and the others are half the volume by being half the height... why?

- Understand heat. For the most basic calculations: "With only natural convection (i.e. no airflow), and no heat sink, a typical two sided PCB with solid copper fills on both sides, needs at least 15.29 cm2/2.37 in2 of area to dissipate 1 watt of power for a 40°C rise in temperature. Adding airflow can typically reduce this size requirement by up to half. To reduce board area further a heat sink will be required." - from Thermal Design By Insight, Not Hindsight by Marc Davis-Marsh

- Get a better understanding of electricity and RF in general. This really pays dividends in terms of understanding why the "rules" are what they are.

For some interesting stuff beyond the basics, or to get yourself thinking, these links are great:

https://resources.altium.com/p/2-the-extreme-importance-of-p... by Rick Hartley

https://codeinsecurity.wordpress.com/2025/01/25/proper-decou... by Graham Sutherland

The "PCB Review" threads on r/PrintedCircuitBoard are great places to learn as well.

Beyond that... well, it's like any skill, learning the theory and best practices is great but the way to really improve is to get out there and look at (and design) tons of PCBs.

Re: Vibe-Coding a PCB – surprisingly good

#60
post #18

What we need is a way to verify designs. Simulate the components, simulate RF parasitic effects, check the component voltage/current/power ratings ... Maybe _then_ we can trust LLMs to design stuff for us.

We have some of that already (design rule checks, spice simulations, etc). But in this case, the author did the layout and routing by hand not by AI, and those parts are _most_ of the work of making a PCB.
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