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Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

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Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wont happen under the current copyright regime, it is impossible to train SOTA without copyrighted text, how do you propose distributing that?

List the titles.

But probably they don't have the rights to actually train on them and that's why they do not publish the list. Otherwise it may be laziness who knows

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#82

I tried Kimi on a few coding problems that Claude was spinning on. It’s good. It’s huge, way too big to be a “local” model — I think you need something like 16 H200s to run it - but it has a slightly different vibe than some of the other models. I liked it. It would definitely be useful in ensemble use cases at the very least.

Still pretty good, someone with enough resources could distil it down to a more manageable size for the rest of us.

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#83

This is not open source, they have a "modified MIT license" where they have other restrictions on users over a certain threshold. Our only modification part is that, if the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of your commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in monthly revenue, you…

> This is not open source

OSI purism is deleterious and has led to industry capture.

Non-viral open source is simply a license for hyperscalers to take advantage. To co-opt offerings and make hundreds of millions without giving anything back.

We need more "fair source" licensing to support sustainable engineering that rewards the small ICs rather than mega conglomerate corporations with multi-trillion dollar market caps. The same companies that are destroying the open web.

This license isn't even that protective of the authors. It just asks for credit if you pass a MAU/ARR threshold. They should honestly ask for money if you hit those thresholds and should blacklist the Mag7 from usage altogether.

The resources put into building this are significant and they're giving it to you for free. We should applaud it.

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#84

I tried Kimi on a few coding problems that Claude was spinning on. It’s good. It’s huge, way too big to be a “local” model — I think you need something like 16 H200s to run it - but it has a slightly different vibe than some of the other models. I liked it. It would definitely be useful in ensemble use cases at the very least.

Reasonable speeds are possible with 4bit quants on 2 512GB Mac Studios (MLX TB4 Ring - see https://x.com/awnihannun/status/1943723599971443134 ) or even a single socket Epyc system with >1TB of RAM (about the same real world memory throughput as the M Ultra). So $20k-ish to play with it. For real-world speeds though yeah, you'd need serious hardware. This is more of a "deploy your own stamp" model, less a "local" mod…

I write a local LLM client, but sometimes, I hate that local models have enough knobs to turn that people can advocate they're reasonable in any scenario - in yesterday's post re: Kimi k2, multiple people spoke up that you can "just" stream the active expert weights out of 64 GB of RAM, and use the lowest GGUF quant, and then you get something that rounds to 1 token/s, and that is reasonable for use.

Good on you for not exaggerating.

I am very curious what exactly they see in that, 2-3 people hopped in to handwave that you just have it do agent stuff overnight and it's well worth it. I can't even begin to imagine unless you have a metric **-ton of easily solved problems that aren't coding. Even a 90% success rate gets you into "useless" territory quick when one step depends on the other, and you're running it autonomoously for hours

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#85

"Open source" lol Open-weight. As usual, you don't get the dataset, training scripts, etc.

It's not even open-weight. It's weight-available. It uses a "modified MIT license": Modified MIT License Copyright (c) 2025 Moonshot AI Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the “Software”), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, su…

This seems significantly more permissive than GPL. I think it's reasonable to consider it open-weight.

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#86

"Open source" lol Open-weight. As usual, you don't get the dataset, training scripts, etc.

It's not even open-weight. It's weight-available. It uses a "modified MIT license": Modified MIT License Copyright (c) 2025 Moonshot AI Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the “Software”), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, su…

4-clause BSD is considered open source by Debian and the FSF and has a similar requirement.

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#87

I tried Kimi on a few coding problems that Claude was spinning on. It’s good. It’s huge, way too big to be a “local” model — I think you need something like 16 H200s to run it - but it has a slightly different vibe than some of the other models. I liked it. It would definitely be useful in ensemble use cases at the very least.

[deleted]

Re: Kimi K2 is a state-of-the-art mixture-of-experts (MoE) language model

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

me too - we must energymaxx. i want a nuclear reactor in my backyard powering everything. I want ac units in every room and my open door garage while i workout.

You're saying this in jest, but I would LOVE to have a nuclear reactor in my backyard that produced enough power to where I could have a minisplit for every room in my house, including the garage so I could work out in there.

I am not joking
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