Apple vs the Law • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple vs the Law

#411

Post by EMIRELADERO » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #361

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Original iPhone didn’t have any apps and Apple later created their own ecosystem with an end user agreement which supersedes the ads. The whole "user agreement" thing is one of the biggest problems, because it means Apple thinks you buying an iPhone doesn't inherently entitle you to the advertised functionality of it. Which is, to out it mildly, highly misleading and potentially illegal. The "small print" shoul…

It's called EULA Roofie. I think Apple will eventually fade away and be replaced by another company that has a more free and open platform. My main concern throughout this discussion is how we're drifting from regulating the digital market place itself. Preventing things like EULA Roofies etc. where somebody can track your personal life and sell it to others to manipulate you. According to the App Store policies, if…

> Well, it's their platform and they're entitled to profit from it as they're pleased. Even the European Commission admitted that as well, because saying otherwise is akin to confiscating their intellectual property.

It is not a violation of someone's IP for a 3rd-party dev to make an app that interacts with that someone's OS. Software interacting with (and being compatible with/depending on) another doesn't touch the IP domain at all.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#412

Post by EMIRELADERO » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #407

grishka wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep comparing appliances to general-purpose devices. You also act like the "accept to continue" legalese actually matters to anyone but the legal department that wrote it. Please stop. When someone buys a car, they usually don't expect to run third-party software on it. They use it to get to places. They expect to use the built-in entertainment system to listen to music and maybe use CarPlay or Android Auto, and…

If you’re not happy with the Apple products or the value you’re getting from them, then simply stop buying them or making apps for them. You don’t have to use an iPhone. You’re welcome to use any Android based phone you’d like and install anything Google allows on it. Or use any European based phone operating system. Oh wait, there’s none, because any phone company that became successful in Europe had to run away.

> If you’re not happy with the Apple products or the value you’re getting from them, then simply stop buying them or making apps for them. You don’t have to use an iPhone. You’re welcome to use any Android based phone you’d like and install anything Google allows on it.

Leaving aside all the idealist "I own it" stuff that's been repeated here many times, there's another angle to this.

If you're a mobile app developer, you're effectively forced to develop for Android and iOS, it's a duopoly.

Would you accept a status quo where there were only two store brands for the entire US, and any seller of any product at all had to use one, the other or both? And all citizens had to shop in one or the other, and couldn't even switch because it carried many additional costs?

Re: Apple vs the Law

#413

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

nntwozz wrote: post #147

I dream of an alternate reality where Steve Jobs makes snide remarks about politics, sets things right with the App Store (worldwide), Siri, Ai and the lackluster UI and quality control of software lately. Steve would get on top of things and speak his mind and we were all better off for it. There's a severe lack of character in Tim Cook, I think the best thing to come out under his reign is the M-series hardware and…

[deleted]

Re: Apple vs the Law

#414

Post by immibis » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 6:59 PM UTC

rickdeckard wrote: post #139

FinnLobsien wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those 27 sets of laws basically still exist. Regulation is certainly not the only reason. Fragmentation is another massive problem. There's the EU-Inc initiative that the EU has basically made pointless (by wanting to introduce 27 new standards, not one, just making things more complex). Note that I'm not arguing for zero regulation.

This keeps coming up over and over on HN. There are no 27 sets of laws to do business in Europe. It's not perfect, but it's a SINGLE MARKET, if you comply to the EU regulation you are allowed to sell everywhere. It does however not absolve you from additional local market demands to be competitive, i.e. local language support, service infrastructure, etc. For example: Miele is one of the largest washing machine manuf…

I heard they make quality products that last 20 years and don't use WiFi, too. Maybe they should try exporting to America.

If true, it's indicative of some American vs European ideology. American tech bro soyjaks keep screaming criticisms about things like GDPR preventing remote-brickable wifi washing machines, and European bases nordic mans are like "bro those things are crap, why would I want them"?

Re: Apple vs the Law

#415

Post by immibis » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 7:02 PM UTC

giingyui wrote: post #206

xandrius wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you place it? I'm curious because centre-right is quite spot on.

Socially and economically left wing. Progressive socially and interventionist economically.

Definitely center-right. They hate welfare but provide it reluctantly. They keep trying to privatize public transit. They'd never dismantle a company doing stuff they didn't like, as long as it was profitable. Stuff like that.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#416

Post by immibis » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 7:04 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #384

carlosjobim wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet Union had large industrialists and so does China. Large companies and large industry is the defining aspect of both socialism and capitalism.

The Soviet Union and China are/were not and have virtually never been socialist countries - they are/were state capitalist economies. Socialism means "corporations are owned by the people working in them", as in co-ops. State-owned corporations under brutal dictatorships are in no conceivable way "worker-owned". They all called themselves socialist just as they called themselves democratic - as in, basic propaganda.…

Clarification: an exact specification of socialism does not exist, but one of the consistent themes is that everything is democratized - in the sense that power rests with the people, actual power not just nominal - not necessarily by voting on everything.

The Soviet Union had big guys at the top who controlled everything from a distance, it was literally just a dictatorship (at least by the end).

Re: Apple vs the Law

#417

Post by nntwozz » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 7:52 PM UTC

This reminded me of Rockefeller’s reputed remark, “Competition is a sin.”

Re: Apple vs the Law

#418

Post by hnlmorg » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 8:54 PM UTC

immibis wrote: post #393

hnlmorg wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a bigger EV manufacturer in America.

Ford

Nope. Ford are a bigger automotive manufacturer but a smaller manufacturer of EVs than Tesla.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#419

Post by FirmwareBurner » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 9:19 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #284

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We don't need cars from fascists. Really? Because look up on the history of VW, BMW, Porsche, Fiat, etc and their founding families, some of who still own a large part of the shares of those companies today. Most of them worked with fascists no problem, some by force of the era some by opportunity but none of them opposed them. You see this is the typical European hypocrisy that I dislike. Pointing fingers that Elon…

Yes, everyone played a role in WW 2, that is why we try to learn from history, instead of supporting those eager to repeating it.

You're ignoring my point completely and moving the discussion elsewhere.

If you're claiming to be "fighting" Tesla just for Elon being labeled "fascist" by smooth brain Redditors, why aren't you also fighting VW, Porsche, Fiat, for their owners also being actually documented fascists?

Re: Apple vs the Law

#420

Post by davidw » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 11:16 PM UTC

overfeed wrote: post #381

davidw wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are pretty dire right now in the US, but to understand that... it's complicated and I don't think you can blindly reject everything from how things are done in the US. They all have to be reasoned about individually and as part of a bigger system.

> I don't think you can blindly reject everything from how things are done in the US Sure, but I doubt there's any country in the world that aspires for its citizens to be treated like American consumers.

After having lived in Italy for years, there are some real upsides to being an American customer. Returning stuff that is genuinely not right in some way to a store in Italy is a huge PITA. Here? "I'd like to return this half-eaten thing of salsa, Costco" "sure, no problem!". Italy: "sorry, but grocery stores close on Wednesday afternoons and Sunday? Forget it!". That has subsequently changed, but it blew people's minds who weren't used to it.

I could spend a lot of time comparing the relative benefits and drawbacks of both countries.

The US has a lot of good things going for it which is what makes what is happening now all the more heartbreaking.