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Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

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Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#211
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground " Well, Ayahuasca (with DMT as the active ingredient) retreats seem more and more common and are for some reasons tolerated more and more in europe. Technically it is illegal, but I can still book them online. But I won't, as I don't trust the competence of the average new age "shaman".

I dislike the idea of potential life threatening toxicity, the constant vomiting, the feeling like shit for days. Ayahuasca trips seem to be like edging with poison. But maybe the documentary I saw was biased.

With pharmahuasca or ayahuasca analogues maybe. With a normal/traditional brew it's essentially impossible to overdose (think like 3-4 liters of the stuff). Analogues like syrian rue are a lot easier to overdose though, it's a pretty small amount of material needed.

Also the vast majority of people are done purging within a few hours...not "days"

(Source: work at retreat center and have drank hundreds of times)

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#213
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this different from regular DMT?

Yes. Regular DMT is N,N-DMT, Atkinson's Jaguar is 5-MeO-DMT. They have been referred to as "the power and the glory" respectively. 5-MeO-DMT is regarded as one of the most powerful and profound psychedelics, even when compared to N,N-DMT.

On DMT, you meet elves. On 5-MeO-DMT you hear every voice in the universe at once. Quite a step up, but both last like 15 minutes, max.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychedelics challenge the post-Enlightenment project of "rational" adulthood. Western civilization has a deep myth: the myth of necessary order - a yoking of rationality, order, and progress together into what forms the basis for modernity. Psychedelics cannot have intrinsic value outside of rationality, so, they must either be accepted on the basis of rationality and order or face rejection. We express this using t…

The sheer existence of established and (partially) self-reinforcing sets of cultural standards doesn't strike me as a good basis to explore the fundamental complement of it all, or to describe it altogether as something assuredly misleading and "bad". This should be especially apparent if you've ever tried creating something that is self-justifying (it's usually a hard, valuable, and sought after effort). Put differe…

I'm not sure where you got "malicious cabal" from. Cultural values are the water in which fish swim. They look normal, obvious, trivially true, or just the way things "are". No one is secretly directing cultural truths while believing they are lies. Cultural truths are self-perpetuating ie: socially reproduced.

It's actually quite the opposite. True-believers overwhelmingly disseminate cultural myths. It's the police officer who believes they can positively affect the enforcement of order, educators who base values in the rational order of the mind. It's journalists and pundits who frame news as a tension between order (good, stable) and chaos (bad, dangerous). Where deviance is newsworthy primarily as a threat to order. See news cycles on crime, protests, economic instability, all in terms of order must be "restored."

Look at the modern workplace, for instance, obsessed with order, predictability, and process (think: KPIs, best practices, Six Sigma). And corporate culture manuals and onboarding training reinforcing norms of punctuality, control, and rational planning.

It's present in engineers, scientists, architects, IT managers - professions often celebrated as the apex of rational, orderly progress and as solutions to messy[chaotic] problems. Even here, it's easy to gain karma dunking on the liberal arts, all because science is assumed more value because it more closely aligns with necessary order.

None of these roles form a secret cabal. Still, they enforce and perpetuate the cultural value system whose results are judged on the basis of order.

No one is saying that chaos is good or order is bad. It’s that the binary itself is a function of our cultural mythmaking. When psychedelics make that myth visible, the reaction isn't to consider the critique, but to defend the myth as "reality."

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#217
post #179

Is the world's most powerful psychedelic the personal computer, or is it 5-MeO-DMT (Jaguar)? Not having tried the latter, and therefore speaking from a position of ignorance, I'm inclined toward the former. I think Timothy Leary agreed with me.

Having experience with a lot of psychedelics it's completely ridiculous to put the personal computer in that category. Timothy Leary might've drawn a parallel on the psychological impact of computers (I have no idea on the exact quote or it's context), which is enormous, but computers are just not psychedelic.

Could you help me out, would this video be considered psychedelic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_dLx_J2oVs I made it with a personal computer.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sheer existence of established and (partially) self-reinforcing sets of cultural standards doesn't strike me as a good basis to explore the fundamental complement of it all, or to describe it altogether as something assuredly misleading and "bad". This should be especially apparent if you've ever tried creating something that is self-justifying (it's usually a hard, valuable, and sought after effort). Put differe…

I'm not sure where you got "malicious cabal" from. Cultural values are the water in which fish swim. They look normal, obvious, trivially true, or just the way things "are". No one is secretly directing cultural truths while believing they are lies. Cultural truths are self-perpetuating ie: socially reproduced. It's actually quite the opposite. True-believers overwhelmingly disseminate cultural myths. It's the police…

> No one is saying that chaos is good or order is bad. It’s that the binary itself is a function of our cultural mythmaking.

Respectfully, this is nonsense. Ask anyone who lived in Libya under Gaddafi and then in the years since, or who lived under any other despotic regime and compare it to the chaos that ensued when the despot is removed.

Civilization’s association with order is not random (or a function of “cultural myth making”); chaos _sucks_.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you got "malicious cabal" from. Cultural values are the water in which fish swim. They look normal, obvious, trivially true, or just the way things "are". No one is secretly directing cultural truths while believing they are lies. Cultural truths are self-perpetuating ie: socially reproduced. It's actually quite the opposite. True-believers overwhelmingly disseminate cultural myths. It's the police…

> No one is saying that chaos is good or order is bad. It’s that the binary itself is a function of our cultural mythmaking. Respectfully, this is nonsense. Ask anyone who lived in Libya under Gaddafi and then in the years since, or who lived under any other despotic regime and compare it to the chaos that ensued when the despot is removed. Civilization’s association with order is not random (or a function of “cultur…

[deleted]

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you got "malicious cabal" from. Cultural values are the water in which fish swim. They look normal, obvious, trivially true, or just the way things "are". No one is secretly directing cultural truths while believing they are lies. Cultural truths are self-perpetuating ie: socially reproduced. It's actually quite the opposite. True-believers overwhelmingly disseminate cultural myths. It's the police…

> No one is saying that chaos is good or order is bad. It’s that the binary itself is a function of our cultural mythmaking. Respectfully, this is nonsense. Ask anyone who lived in Libya under Gaddafi and then in the years since, or who lived under any other despotic regime and compare it to the chaos that ensued when the despot is removed. Civilization’s association with order is not random (or a function of “cultur…

All myths contain a seed of truth. I can accept that living in Libya sucks while also accepting that our culture mythologizes order. I'm not sure how to see the world in such black and white terms - that acknowledging one invalidates the other.
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