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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#191

Post by zamadatix »

dboreham wrote: post #169
chmod775 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes people put cleaning liquid in the fridge. Given a long enough span of time, every possible fuck up eventually will happen.

Probably time to design a plane that can't be sent into terrain in seconds by flipping a switch.

"Sent into terrain in seconds by flipping a switch" is both too inaccurate and feels too cursory to take as impetus for serious design criticism, especially when the extensive preliminary report explicitly does not recommend any design changes with the current information.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#192

Post by stetrain »

xyst wrote: post #180

A simple wrong flip of a switch killed 260 people and leaving 1 lone survivor who walked away from the plane crash nearly unscathed. Dudes is extremely lucky or the character from Unbreakable.

A flip of two switches, in sequence, with a locking mechanism on each switch.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#193

Post by userbinator »

ceejayoz wrote: post #15
chupchap wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a mechanical failure

Both switches, at slightly different times? Seems pretty unlikely.

A rodent chewing on wires. Vibration-induced chafing. Tin whiskers causing an intermittent short. There are many possibilities, those came to mind first.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#194

Post by userbinator »

stefan_ wrote: post #59
dcreater wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if the mechanical position of the switch guarantees its electronic state without any possibility for hardware malfunction? If no, then you are claiming a person made one of the most grave acts of inhumanity ever. This sounds to me like an electronics issue - an intermittent, inadvertent state transition likely due to some PCB component malfunction

And then 10s later the switches magically fixed themselves? The likely not electronically connected switches since that would compromise engine redundancy?

All this rests on whether we have CVR audio of the pilot(s) manipulating the switches.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#195

Post by appreciatorBus »

apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #153

Even if the plane had no power, why couldn't they have glided it down safely?

They only ever got a few hundred feet off the ground.

Yes of course the plane glided once the engines stopped, producing thrust, just like all planes do. But just like all planes, and all gliders, gliding means trading altitude for velocity - giving up precious height every second in order to maintain flight. At that stage in the flight, they just didn’t have enough to give. If the same thing had happened at 30,000 feet, it would be a non-event. They would glide down a few thousand feet as the engines spool back up and once they return to full power, everything will be back to normal. Or if for some reason, the engines were permanently cooked, you’d have maybe 20 to 30 minutes of glide time so you’ve got a lot of time to look around and find a flat spot. But you just don’t have enough time for all that to happen When you’re a few hundred feet off the ground.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#197

Post by sxg »

resize2996 wrote: post #175

[flagged]

Studying how humans make errors is a fascinating field. Simply banning someone who's made a "slip" error as hypothesized wouldn't actually reduce the likelihood of this error occurring in the future. These sorts of errors are stochastic and could happen to anyone at any time. Preventing them requires a lot of thought.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#198

Post by sillysaurusx »

maxbond wrote: post #166
sillysaurusx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you do now. :) It’s mostly a very public "If I’m wrong, I won’t ever do this again." I’ve been writing informative HN comments since 2008 on various accounts. It’s a big deal to me not to spread misinformation or be mistaken in a situation like this. The victims also deserve to be acknowledged. At this point the overwhelming body of evidence points to a deliberate act. Pilots are trained never to touch the fuel…

> It’s a big deal to me not to spread misinformation or be mistaken in a situation like this. Then why not either wait until there's more information or temper your remarks by acknowledging there's still ambiguity? That would directly hedge against spreading misinformation, whereas staking your reputation on it and then shutting up if you're wrong only works after the misinformation has spread and doesn't seem very p…

I was about to leave a big reply, but then I remembered that the guidelines ask that we only comment when feeling intellectual curiosity. That’s not what I’m feeling now, so I’ll go spend the evening with my daughter. I hope you have a nice evening as well.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#199

Post by schiffern »

kraigspear wrote: post #78
andrewinardeer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was one of the most horrific mass murder in history This implies intent. > One pilot asked “why did you turn them off?” and the other said “I didn’t.” To me this reads like an unintentional error with colossol implications. Are you suggesting there was malicious intent and then a delibrately crafted denial by the perpetrator?

The switches require that you pull them out, move them to the end position and then push them back down, and it was two switches. It could have still took off on one engine. This is essentially the turn off plane switch. It would seem to almost impossible that it would be an accident.

Not possible it's an "I bumped it" type of accident, maybe.

It's quite possible it's a "performed the wrong muscle memory at the worst possible moment" type of accident. This is unlikely, but anyone who thinks such a mistake is impossible doesn't know anything about human factors.

Unlikely just means "low probability." There are thousands of flights per day, so it's only a matter of time.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#200

Post by pixl97 »

dcreater wrote: post #188
K0balt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time between the two switches being activated and then them being switched back on after being noticed strongly suggests that they were actually manipulated. Malice looke very likely to me. An investigation into the pilots life may turn something up, I guess. It’s worth noting that Premeditation or “intention” doesn’t have to factor into this. Studies of survivors of impulse suicides (jumping off of bridges etc)…

> The time between the two switches being activated and then them being switched back on after being noticed strongly suggests that they were actually manipulated How so? It is just as likely to be an intermitted electronic malfunction.

For both switches on seperate systems and wires that are independant.

I mean, it's not impossible, but it sure the hell is improbable.

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