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OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

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Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#221

Post by raincole »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #104
adamoshadjivas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on everything. Just to add, not only anthropic is offering CC at like a 500% loss, they restricted sonnet/opus 4 access to windsurf, and jacked up their enterprise deal to Cursor. The increase in price was so big that it forced cursor to make that disastrous downgrade to their plans. I think only way Cursor and other UX wrappers still win is if on device models or at least open source models catch up in the ne…

Seems like the survival strategy for cursor would be to develop their own frontier coding model. Maybe they can leverage the data from their still somewhat significant lead in the space to make a solid effort.

> to develop their own frontier coding model

Uh, the irony is that this is exactly what Windsurf tried.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#222

Post by james_marks »

socalgal2 wrote: post #186
extr wrote: post #56

IMO other than the Microsoft IP issue, I think the biggest thing that has shifted since this acquisition was first in the works is Claude Code has absolutely exploded. Forking an IDE and all the expense that comes with that feels like a waste of effort, considering the number of free/open source CLI agentic tools that are out there. Let's review the current state of things: - Terminal CLI agents are several orders of…

just curious because I'm inexperienced with all the latest tools here > - Tab completion model (Cursor's remaining moat) What is that? I have Gemini Code Assist installed in VSCode and I'm getting tab completion. (yes, LLM based tab completion) Which, as an aside I find useful when it works but also often extremely confusing to read. Like say in C++ I type int myVar = 123 The editor might show int myVar = 123; And it…

This feeling of, “what exactly is in the file?” is why I have all AI turned off in my IDE, and run CC independently.

I get all AI or none, so it’s always obvious what’s happening.

Completions are OK, but I did not enjoy the feeling of both us having a hand on the wheel and trying to type at the same time.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#223

Post by slad »

I have been using Windsurf for few months. They even have their own AI model SWE-1 model. I really liked using Windsurf. They also have integrations with other IDEs ex: jetbrains, VS code, etc.

This week I have been using Claude Code and Windsurf side by side. I would make change with one, stash it, ask the other for similar change and then would diff it.

Overall Windsurf was pretty on a par with Claude code.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#224

Post by james_marks »

bionhoward wrote: post #144
extr wrote: post #56

IMO other than the Microsoft IP issue, I think the biggest thing that has shifted since this acquisition was first in the works is Claude Code has absolutely exploded. Forking an IDE and all the expense that comes with that feels like a waste of effort, considering the number of free/open source CLI agentic tools that are out there. Let's review the current state of things: - Terminal CLI agents are several orders of…

does claude code have a privacy mode with zero data retention?

Haven’t looked recently but when it came out, the story was that it was private by default. It uses a regular API token, which promises no retention.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#225

Post by parthdesai »

dalemhurley wrote: post #59

Cursor (and Garry Tan’s X post) has shown us that the VC money is propping up these companies astounding growth, the only way for them to become profitable is to increase the cost per a request, which means they need to innovate like crazy. The moat is paper thin. GitHub has open sourced copilot. The open source community is working hard on their own projects. No doubt Cursor is moving fast to create amazing innovati…

Gary gives off a grifter vibe to me. Such a shame seeing how YC has fallen

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#226

Post by jonny_eh »

gowld wrote: post #67
jonny_eh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “leftover” employees at Character were NOT screwed over. Options were converted to cash at the deal’s valuation. Hopefully Windsurf employees are treated well here. Note: I worked at Character until recently.

Whose cash? OpenAI isn't paying, and Google isn't paying, and Windsurf investors already paid.

I wasn’t referring to Windsurf. But if there was no cash involved here, then ya, the employees were screwed. Do we know that’s the case though?

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#227

Post by james_marks »

asdev wrote: post #129
virgildotcodes wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude Code is totally different paradigm. You don't edit your files directly so there is no tab autocomplete. It's a chat session. There are IDE integrations where you can run it in a terminal session while perusing the files through your IDE, but it's not powering any autocomplete there AFAIK.

are people viewing file diffs in the terminal? surely people aren't just vibing code changes in

Yes. I manually read the diff of every proposed change and manually accept or deny.

I love CC, but letting it auto-write changes is, at best, a waste of time trying to find the bugs after they start compounding.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#228

Post by jhickok »

e1g wrote: post #183
harikb wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP is talking about Claude Code Max 100 & 200 plans. They are very reasonable compared to anything else that has per-use token usage. I am on Max and I can work 5 hrs+ a day easily. It does fall back to Sonnet pretty fast, but I don't seem to notice any big differece.

Yes, my CC usage is regularly $50-$100 per day , so their Max plan is absolutely great value that I don’t expect to last.

Can you give me an idea of how much interaction would be $50-$100 per day? Like are you pretty constantly in a back and forth with CC? And if you wouldn’t mind, any chance you can give me an idea of productivity gains pre/post LLM?

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#229

Post by ryanobjc »

extr wrote: post #56

IMO other than the Microsoft IP issue, I think the biggest thing that has shifted since this acquisition was first in the works is Claude Code has absolutely exploded. Forking an IDE and all the expense that comes with that feels like a waste of effort, considering the number of free/open source CLI agentic tools that are out there. Let's review the current state of things: - Terminal CLI agents are several orders of…

Just cancelled my Cursor sub due to claude code, so heavily agree.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#230

Post by phillipcarter »

lukan wrote: post #219
libraryofbabel wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that’s a viable strategy. It is very very hard and not many people can do it. Just look at how much Meta is paying to poach the few people in the world capable of training a next gen frontier model.

Why are there actually only a few people in the world able to do this? The basic concept is out there. Lots of smart people studying hard to catch up to also be poached. No shortage of those I assume. Good trainingsdata still seems the most important to me. (and lots of hardware) Or does the specific training still involves lots of smart decisions all the time? And those small or big decisions make all the difference…

I'd recommend reading some of the papers on what it takes to actually train a proper foundation model, such as the Llama 3 Herd of Models paper. It is a deeply sophisticated process.

Coding startups also try to fine-tune OSS models to their own ends. But this is also very difficult, and usually just done as a cost optimization, not as a way to get better functionality.

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