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Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

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Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#61

Post by SoftTalker »

downrightmike wrote: post #29
prairieroadent wrote: post #16

there has to be a way for us as a society to introduce a level of accountability into our so called "food" supply chain without the burden of regulation... perhaps it's as simple as spending more educating our kids about agriculture amendment: seems to be an unpopular take... my point being regulation is a workaround for a population that is worst than uneducated, miseducated, especially in regards to agriculture and…

FDA and USDA are supposed to do that. It has to be government lead, because we know business will cheat

But government won't cheat?

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#62

Post by ikiris »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #45
crazygringo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to introduce a level of accountability... without the burden of regulation Why? What's wrong with regulation? The whole point of regulation is safety and accountability and fairness. Yes things can be over-regulated, but then the solution is to regulate properly, not over-regulate. The reason we don't have libertarian or anarchist societies is because they fundamentally can't solve the problems around safety, accou…

I wonder if we should think about getting rid of limited liability corporations? Hit the capitalist class where it hurts.

Nothing says well functioning society like the ability to sue someone after you were life alteringly poisoned.

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#63

Post by fuzzfactor »

jpmattia wrote: post #15
pfdietz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hand held x-ray fluorescence spectrometer?

And just like that, there was a mad rush of mass-spectrometer-for-home-use startups.

X-ray fluorescence detects elements based on their characteristic electromagnetic spectrum when irradiated with x-rays.

Not very much like a mass-spectrometer which creates a characteristic pattern of masses resulting from the test material as it is manipulated by the electron ionization or chemical ionization process. Where ions are detected across the atomic mass range of the particular spectrometer, forming a characteristic pattern or "spectrum" across that range.

Actually more jewelers and gold dealers than ever are using the x-ray guns professionally for bulk assay on an everyday basis. There are some handhelds which may be sensitive enough for trace analysis in food, but that requires a whole nother level of dedication beyond identification of metal objects, not just in technique and training but "laboratory" preparation as well.

The first obstacle would be convincing an owner of an instrument having capable specs, to embrace usage for things other than gold and silver assay. Then seriously pursue mastery of the instrument more so than ever to accomplish decent detection of low levels of lead and other metals like chromium, mercury, cadmium, etc.

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#64

Post by prairieroadent »

padjo wrote: post #53
prairieroadent wrote: post #16

there has to be a way for us as a society to introduce a level of accountability into our so called "food" supply chain without the burden of regulation... perhaps it's as simple as spending more educating our kids about agriculture amendment: seems to be an unpopular take... my point being regulation is a workaround for a population that is worst than uneducated, miseducated, especially in regards to agriculture and…

So rather than have government do the testing and holding producers to account we get every consumer to do it? That sounds pretty inefficient.

I imagine that in a competitive market where the participants are educated that the farmers would publish tests alongside their crop and the educated consumer would understand that they should be buying direct from farmers and be processing the turmeric themselves

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#66

Post by prairieroadent »

SoftTalker wrote: post #61
downrightmike wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FDA and USDA are supposed to do that. It has to be government lead, because we know business will cheat

But government won't cheat?

yeah, it seems people don't realize the level of corruption that exists in this country... middle management is a workaround for miseducation

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#67

Post by LarsDu88 »

perihelions wrote: post #35
LarsDu88 wrote: post #20

I immediately tested the 5 year old Sadaf tumeric in my kitchen cabinet using a 3M lead testing kit I happened to have in my house. Thankfully it came out negative!

That doesn't sound technically plausible to me—there aren't any inexpensive tests. Do you mean something like this 3M product[0], that's intended for paint not food, and is documented as "LeadCheck™ Swabs reliabily detect lead in paints at 0.5% (5,000 ppm). 3M™ LeadCheck™ Swabs may indicate lead in some paint films as low as 0.06% (600ppm)." ? If so, those aren't remotely suited for this purpose—those detection lower…

Thanks for this heads up. This will be useful information for other people with the same idea I had.

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#68

Post by prairieroadent »

toast0 wrote: post #60
prairieroadent wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my point is that regulation is a burden, not that it isn't the next step... from my point of view regulation is a workaround for our nightmare of an education system where giving kids a proper schooling is considered dangerous and a threat to national security

What sort of proper schooling allows one to detect lead in ground turmeric? I guess proper schooling would help one understand the analysis techniques, but the machines are pretty expensive and most people don't have one at home. Regulations that require food products to be regularly surveyed for heavy metals or other contaminants seem more effective than requiring every household to own and operate analysis machines…

if the population was thoroughly educated then I imagine most food would be bought direct from farmers with test published alongside the crop because the population understands the importance of unadulterated food and are armed with the ability to test their food cheaply... once relationships are established with farmers and food providers then the need to test becomes less frequent

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#69

Post by searine »

prairieroadent wrote: post #43
crazygringo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to introduce a level of accountability... without the burden of regulation Why? What's wrong with regulation? The whole point of regulation is safety and accountability and fairness. Yes things can be over-regulated, but then the solution is to regulate properly, not over-regulate. The reason we don't have libertarian or anarchist societies is because they fundamentally can't solve the problems around safety, accou…

my point is that regulation is a burden, not that it isn't the next step... from my point of view regulation is a workaround for our nightmare of an education system where giving kids a proper schooling is considered dangerous and a threat to national security

>my point is that regulation is a burden

By definition. Like a laws against murder are a burden to murderers.

The key to stopping murders isn't "get rid of the murder laws", but fix what made these people people violent (like lead poisoning?). Or in the context of this kind of regulation, the solution isn't to get rid of regulation, but make business account for the costs of their externalities from the beginning (rather than being forced to be moral by the government).

Re: Lead pigment in turmeric is the culprit in a global poisoning mystery (2024)

#70

Post by searine »

prairieroadent wrote: post #68
toast0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of proper schooling allows one to detect lead in ground turmeric? I guess proper schooling would help one understand the analysis techniques, but the machines are pretty expensive and most people don't have one at home. Regulations that require food products to be regularly surveyed for heavy metals or other contaminants seem more effective than requiring every household to own and operate analysis machines…

if the population was thoroughly educated then I imagine most food would be bought direct from farmers with test published alongside the crop because the population understands the importance of unadulterated food and are armed with the ability to test their food cheaply... once relationships are established with farmers and food providers then the need to test becomes less frequent

Exactly, we need a label, maybe call it "Nutrition Facts" or something like that which lists all ingredients.

We'd need a way to enforce it though. Maybe make the farmers pinky-swear not to lie on the label because it is cheaper to lie than tell the truth? Do you think that would be enough?

If only there was some kind of group ... or administration even ... specifically tasked with making sure foods are unadulterated. Of course we can't have that though, because that would be regulation and businesses are perfect special little angels and would never ever lie. God forbid we place an evil burden like regulation on a business poisoning all of south-asia with lead.

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