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Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

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Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#221

Post by djoldman »

> So why do people open small shops? For any number of reasons, but my favorite is: They have a strong opinion about how some aspect of a business should be run, and they want to double down on it....That singular thing can drive an initial impulse, but small business purpose quickly shifts into: Being a community hub for a core group of regulars. That — community — is probably the biggest asset of small business ownership. And the quickest way to kill community (perhaps the most valuable gift for running a small business) is to go viral in a damaging way.

> Pour out a cold brew for small shops with giant lines of transient tourists.

> "James told me about another friend who owns a cocktail bar in Kyoto that was TikToked. She had recently stopped by and found him in tears. The only reason he opened the bar, he said, was so locals and friends like her would come. Now, all he had were customers he couldn’t talk to."

One possible interpretation of TFA is that "small shops" only want to allow certain people to enter and not others.

I wonder if some form of private club would be more appropriate.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#222

Post by crab_galaxy »

biztos wrote: post #210
timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world? No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. Many restaurants in Japan (my friend's included) are quite obviously one-man, standing-room only op…

Indeed, I’ve seen a lot of “visit Japan” ads lately. But the thing I worry about, having never been there, is that I might get some good recommendations for out-of-the-way spots where there would be few if any other tourists, and take the time to go find them, only to be denied entry because I’m a foreigner.

I got the two fingers making an x sign a handful when I was in Japan. It’s really not a big deal and it never felt malicious. You just move on, though it does kind of suck when you’re hungry!

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#223

Post by [deleted] »

lofaszvanitt wrote: post #141
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

You have to protect your culture. USA has a 250 year history while Japan has 10x of that.

[deleted]

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#224

Post by SoftTalker »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70
bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And a few more of the seedier bars just have a “no foreigners” sign out front. Those have existed long before tourism to Japan became common. Those signs were there when the vast majority of foreigners in Japan were English teachers and soldiers. Many tabehodai (all-you-can-eat) and most nomihodai (all-you-can-drink) places had them.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

"Has tattoos" is not a protected class. You're free to ban tattooed people from your place of business if you like.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#225

Post by BobaFloutist »

diggan wrote: post #218
BobaFloutist wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residency inherently includes national origin, since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident.

Yeah, but the opposite isn't true, my national origin can be Swedish but I can reside in Spain, so banning by residency isn't banning by national origin, seems like a way to ban foreigners (non-residents). Edit: Actually wait > since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident This isn't true is it? If you're born in the US but you live (100% of the time) elsewhere, you're no longer a resident,…

Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident."

Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents.

Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be an open-and-shut racial (or maybe national origin if you tested on the basis of accent) case.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#226

Post by deaddodo »

jayd16 wrote: post #183
returningfory2 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but in my experience many of these places have an unspoken sub-rule that the tattoo rule is not enforced for foreigners.

Seems like if you smile and act friendly and dumb and American you get a lot of slack along with the Japanese shopkeeper version of an eye roll and a headpat.

This rule applies to most confucian/communal East Asian societies with individuals from the West. People aren't idiots, they realize cultures differ, so they're willing to give some slack; especially, with a culture they're somewhat familiar with through media (the US, for instance).

With Japan and Korea (especially the latter) towards Americans, there's also a soft-unspoken rule (that sort of goes both ways) due to the relationship those countries have fostered towards each other. A Brit/German/Italian/etc who spends more than a short visit in Korea/speaks Korean will probably start being taken to the side for flouting cultural norms like age-deference, polite speech, etc to be informed of their cultural mores (usually phrased with an indication that they also come from a structured society, they should understand that this is the way it is); while this will rarely happen to the same group of Americans. In some cases it's the "dumb/naive American" effect, but it also has to do with the larger relationship between the two countries.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#227

Post by BobaFloutist »

ponector wrote: post #207
BobaFloutist wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean "don't have a tattoo" isn't really a rule you can follow based on a sign very easily.

But somehow you can follow rules with signs like "women(men) only". I bet it's easier to follow no tattoo rule.

I mean you can't quickly remove a tattoo or change your gender based on a sign.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#228

Post by vunderba »

anon-3988 wrote: post #139
cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

> But deep down I know that I don't belong here, and that Japan would prefer to be a homogenous society without expats like me. And I hold no hard feelings toward them for that. I think this is an important point that I am struggling to articulate. I actually like the fact that they "prefer to do things their way". When I was traveling there, it is clear that I stand out from my behavior. We might share the same skin…

Tangential to this but I lived in Taiwan for years and every time I saw a new Starbucks or McDonald's go up, I'd have to restrain my gag reflex.

To hell with these multinational corporations that erect their sterile altars to unbridled capitalism, resulting in the mass homogenization of culture. A culture that caters to "everyone" caters to no one.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#229

Post by diggan »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #225
diggan wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but the opposite isn't true, my national origin can be Swedish but I can reside in Spain, so banning by residency isn't banning by national origin, seems like a way to ban foreigners (non-residents). Edit: Actually wait > since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident This isn't true is it? If you're born in the US but you live (100% of the time) elsewhere, you're no longer a resident,…

Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents. Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be…

> Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident."

That sounds like a immigration/social hierarchy/importance rather than something that matters in discrimination contexts, what exactly you mean with "higher status"?

If a bar bans non-US residents, if a US-citizen+Spanish-residency tries to enter, then it shouldn't matter if they're US citizens or not, because the criteria is residency, not citizenship. Or is there like a priority/order for OK/not OK discrimination criteria?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#230

Post by varispeed »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

I remember this. Wanted to order something from a vending machine and had no clue what to do. I went to a nearby hotel and asked person at the reception to help. They actually agreed and bought the item I wanted and didn't want cash for it. Made my day.
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