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Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

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Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#111

Post by Jach »

throwaway3b03 wrote: post #104
timr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

> I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash? What's so hard to believe about that? Lots of places in the Netherlands don't accept cash (probably out of convenience).

If you know anything about Japan it's very strange that a place wouldn't take cash. Post-covid (and a lot of that thanks to Olympics preparations) a lot of places in Tokyo have advanced to taking things other than cash.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#112

Post by [deleted] »

armada651 wrote: post #38
beezlewax wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Let's make it only for the rich or better yet, why not just the oligarchs?

How far do you want to take that? The oligarchs can fly back and forth to Japan every week, should the air fare be so cheap that everyone can do that?

[deleted]

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#113

Post by bee_rider »

imp0cat wrote: post #94
mrln wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is dead

It's not. However this is easily "beaten" by using circle to search -> translate on your smart phone.

I guess the trick will be less effective to the extent to which people try to work around it. But,

1) most people wouldn’t bother to translate something with a fake translation right above it

2) why do people want to go places they aren’t welcome? It is good to let the locals have some things…

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#114

Post by gspencley »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #81

This argument seems to be heavily tinged with xenophobia. Local customers good, foreign ones bad? I can understand if it was specifically about the volume…

Not only that, but these business owners are actively complaining about an influx of business.

I get it if your goal is not necessarily to make as much money as possible and just wanted to create some small, local, "underground" thing. As a small business owner myself, I can think of a few different ways you could accomplish that in spite of massive attention. I mean you can have certain days of the week where you're closed to the general public but patrons with a loyalty card can get in or something. That's just one idea; point is there are solutions.

So I tend to agree with you - this reeks of "we just don't like foreigners. They're ruining our business by being foreign."

My wife and I are about to open our first brick and mortar business and it would be our dream come true to get popular on TikTok and to be a tourist destination. Even though we are a small business in a trendy neighbourhood doing something rather niche that is [hopefully] going to attract a loyal local following.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#115

Post by vachina »

guywithahat wrote: post #107
4fterd4rk wrote: post #4

It's like The Bear. Ohhhhh no I've opened a restaurant and now there are customers aaaaahhhhh this is horrible ahhhhhhhh

Yeah that was sort of the vibe I got too. I understand the point of the article, that regular customers are a nicer customer base than tourists, but it sort of has a pretentious "most tourists aren't worth of Japan" hypothesis to the article which feels silly once you think about it in a broader, economic scope

I guess it depends on the local culture. Japanese relationships are probably a lot less transactional but more “knowing your customers”.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#116

Post by cedws »

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city.

I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, yet inflates prices for locals. Japan's stumbling economy is a factor in itself of the tourism influx due to the weak yen.

In the next few decades I fear Japan is going to go through a difficult period of cultural erosion. It needs foreign workers and at the rate they'll be entering, they won't integrate to the level that the Japanese people want.

I'd like to think I'm one of the "15%" that the article describes - I go to great lengths to integrate despite not speaking a lot of Japanese. But deep down I know that I don't belong here, and that Japan would prefer to be a homogenous society without expats like me. And I hold no hard feelings toward them for that.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#117

Post by TimorousBestie »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70
bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And a few more of the seedier bars just have a “no foreigners” sign out front. Those have existed long before tourism to Japan became common. Those signs were there when the vast majority of foreigners in Japan were English teachers and soldiers. Many tabehodai (all-you-can-eat) and most nomihodai (all-you-can-drink) places had them.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

> It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal.

The sign itself is probably protected speech.

As for the policy, it is probably also legal here. Private businesses have broad rights to refuse individual customers without stating a reason.

Fabricating a legitimate business reason to deny service to a particular group of customers is usually trivial, as well. Proving it was fabricated for discriminatory reasons can be difficult.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#118

Post by ddejohn »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #87
timr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

> I really miss the days when it was possible to be welcomed pretty much anywhere as a foreigner and have almost universal expectations of high quality, scam-free experiences you can still have that. I'm a fulltime traveller. the key is to stay in a place longer. I usually stay in a country for at least a month. that gives you time to meet and actually get to know locals. thats how you get invited to the really cool…

> you can still have that

... if you're a full-time traveler that can afford to stay for months at a time. For the rest (the vast majority) of us, the GP comment is what we get.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#119

Post by keysdev »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #96
diggan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's lawsuit city Aren't private businesses in the US allowed to deny access to their premises for any reasons? Seems like a weird thing to get sued over, I think in most places if you own the local, you get to decide who goes there, unless it's a place for government or similar.

You may deny entry based on your own criteria provided you are not discriminating on race, color, religion, national origin, disability status, veteran status, age (more wiggle room here) or other state-specific traits (sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, etc.). I don't think there's any place in America that would be illegal to bar entry based on the presence of tattoos.

But no shoes, no shirt, no service is quite common.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#120

Post by dudeinjapan »

I'm the CTO & Founder of TableCheck, the booking system used by 10,000+ restaurants in Japan. My two cents: the issue isn't simply "too many tourists" but rather over-concentration at a few hotspots, a domestic-first market, low English proficiency (ranked #87 globally, a notch above Afghanistan), and a culture deeply focused on orderliness and not causing inconvenience for others.

That said, nearly all hospitality owners in Japan I work with now recognize the importance of inbound tourism--critical for a country facing a 30% population decline by 2070. When I started TableCheck ~12 years ago, many places avoided non-Japanese guests--not always from "racism", but often a fear of miscommunication and dissatisfying guests. That mindset is rapidly fading: venues that don't capture inbound guests' revenue simply won't survive.

Happy to answer questions!

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