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Apple vs the Law

formularsumo.co.uk

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Re: Apple vs the Law

#91

Post by neuroelectron »

I basically stopped buying "apps" almost a decade ago when Apple unceremoniously removed an app i paid for with no refund because the in app browser defaulted to a certain website. Btw I have always hated their "app" branding. But the benefit of it, at least for me, is it's a strong reminder that it's a childish analog to an application.

The only exception to this is I bought the game, Vampire Survivors, no wait. It was free. (because of clones in the app store) Anyway.

The funny thing is I do actually have like 100 (free) apps installed. I just never use any of them except for Brave. I basically immediately forget about them the second I install them because just using them is so awkward. They know they have a usability problem but they can't really square it with their massive app ecosystem except in the most slowest, methodical way possible. In the meantime, more UI annoyances are popping up twice as fast.

iPhone used to compete well a decade ago in usability for things like copying text from a webpage into an email. Despite the phone being much larger, I find it much more difficult to do today, perhaps because selecting text is just so unpredictable with the way web standards have become a pile of cruft. Despite whose fault it is, ultimately it's much worse now. I would only bother trying that on a desktop today unless absolutely necessary.

Sometimes text just becomes impossible to edit in certain circumstances. There's like three different things that can happen on a tap and hold and none of them are consistent. It feels absolutely random which one it does. I used to be able to select text from images, now I have to go through two to three cycles of "hold tap menu" -> "select text from image" until it works. It actually still works fine on my old iPad. How is the regression this bad?

Re: Apple vs the Law

#92

Post by nicoburns »

bzzzt wrote: post #84
threatofrain wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developer efficiencies can be translated to customer wins.

Then allowing Apple the efficiency of not implementing yet another way to build a GUI also is a customer win.

Apple already implement everything needed. They just decided that they can clear client-side storage for PWAs whenever they like (deleting user data), making them useless for anything that needs to store data and isn't synced to the cloud.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#93

Post by bzzzt »

amelius wrote: post #78
isodev wrote: post #53

As a developer for apple platforms, it's extremely difficult to keep a positive mindset to all this. Year after year, Apple finds ways to continue unbounded fuckery. Making apps for iPhones is not that profitable anymore either, at this point is more about addressing a painful necessity - Apple is the phone company and you have to make it work if you want access to that "unmovable" infrastructure.

I'm seriously at a loss about why people would support this increasingly developer-hostile ecosystem and essentially work towards their own demise and perhaps even the rest of their profession. I'd suggest switching to a different source of income while you still can, even if only out of self-respect.

Because most people are not developers? Between ad-infested Google, enshittified Microsoft and still not ready for the desktop Linux the Apple ecosystem might be the most accessible and easy to use platform for most non-technical users. As a developer it's an annoyance but I have to admire the elegance in the way Apple uses their core software and hardware technologies over their entire stack. As a user I don't care about what developers feel about it. Apple's market share is big enough to draw lots of them.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#94

Post by ekunazanu »

pyman wrote: post #81
scheeseman486 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He sued Apple and Google for monopolistic behaviour. Meanwhile he doesn't substantially support the one option for computing that doesn't result in vertical control. He uses the tools that enable that control, rather than criticize their existence. > He speaks for millions of independent computer scientists who build games. Epic's apparent support for indie developers is marketing to grow his business. This isn't i…

I'm not sure what your expectations are when it comes to billionaires. Tim's definitely not Linus Torvalds, that's for sure. But he's one of the few actually pushing back.

I wonder what you think of Gabe Newell then

Re: Apple vs the Law

#95

Post by dotandgtfo »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #68
simonask wrote: post #46

As a European, I have to say I am generally impressed with the EU in these cases. I'm from a country that's rich and capable, but with a GDP a fraction of Apple's market cap. There is no chance that national laws and entities would be sufficient to protect my consumer rights from corporations this size. The EU is fundamentally a centre-right, liberalist, pro-business coalition, but what that means is that it is pro-c…

I would argue the opposite: It actually makes European businesses worth off by continuing to make its regulatory environment so complex only massive companies like big tech or Europe's legacy players have the resources to comply. Add to that feel-good green initiatives like a packaging initiative that might lower packaging waste from European companies, but more likely will just make European goods more expensive and…

> I would argue the opposite: It actually makes European businesses worth off by continuing to make its regulatory environment so complex only massive companies like big tech or Europe's legacy players have the resources to comply.

Are you arguing that 27 different sets of laws was a better approach? That these countries would just gladly lie down and never regulate the societal-level harms, systemic lawbreaking, and massive infringement of privacy across the board? I don't think so.

For a moment the political system in the US seemed to get to the same conclusions as the EU under Bidens FTC and anti-trust cases. But the conclusions of that remain to be seen.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#96

Post by pmontra »

isodev wrote: post #53

As a developer for apple platforms, it's extremely difficult to keep a positive mindset to all this. Year after year, Apple finds ways to continue unbounded fuckery. Making apps for iPhones is not that profitable anymore either, at this point is more about addressing a painful necessity - Apple is the phone company and you have to make it work if you want access to that "unmovable" infrastructure.

All iOS and Android developers I know don't write app that they sell themselves. They work for customers that more often than not give away their apps for free because they make money from the service the app gives access to. And they don't sell the service on the app store.

Think about banks, insurance companies, TV broadcasters, train timetables and services, cars management, etc.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#97

Post by Y-bar »

planb wrote: post #79
simonask wrote: post #46

As a European, I have to say I am generally impressed with the EU in these cases. I'm from a country that's rich and capable, but with a GDP a fraction of Apple's market cap. There is no chance that national laws and entities would be sufficient to protect my consumer rights from corporations this size. The EU is fundamentally a centre-right, liberalist, pro-business coalition, but what that means is that it is pro-c…

As a former European, I agree with your first statement. I love that the EU is taking this seriously, and I like how they introduced the "gatekeeper" term to apply regulations only to the "big ones" and not small businesses (even though I don't agree with many of the individual laws in the DMA). That said, you can't argue that this isn't protectionist - we simply don't have any gatekeepers here, so if we're fair the…

European companies I could find which the European Commission has taken action against with the Digital Services Act:

Zalando has three enforcement actions against them since June 2023

Booking.com has one

Technius (mainly streaming) has two

WebGroup CZ (Adult entertainment) has five

Re: Apple vs the Law

#98

Post by jjani »

bitpush wrote: post #5
nolok wrote: post #2

Ah, the title point at something I said in an earlier thread that was misunderstood or I probably explained it wrong : the way apple played it, it was not about the actual regulation anymore, and anyone who kept arguing "but it's a bad regulation bla bla" where missing the point. By playing it the way they did, with their public statement against the regulator, and half implementation clearly done to be non cooperati…

Apple is very cunning when it comes to push back. In China they go along with no whining. In US and EU, they make a big deal citing "privacy" and the likes. The only animating objective for Apple is money. Everything else is opportunistic

This is correct. Someone above commented this "Starting to feel like it'd be more sensible to just have the EU fund an independent phone OS/Hardware.". The sensible thing is much different; it's to start behaving like China, in the sense of "my way or the high way, and no you don't get to drag it out in our courts for years, we're not interested".

Re: Apple vs the Law

#99

Post by sensanaty »

shuckles wrote: post #62
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow, Android manages to do it. Not only for browsers; all apps have JIT access without any entitlement/review needed. It doesn't seem like the average Android user is worse-off because of that, security-wise.

The average Android user is far worse off security-wise than the average iOS user, and it isn't even close.

How so? As of late, Android FCZC exploits pay out more than iOS ones do at the moment[1]. And anecdotally from what I hear from friends involved in security, Android is very well hardened at this point and is equal to iOS despite having a much wider surface area for attacks.

[1] https://opzero.ru/en/prices/

Re: Apple vs the Law

#100

Post by alt227 »

Zopieux wrote: post #86
amelius wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also costs them my trust, though.

This happens in the confines of legal (EU, California, ...) institutions and courts with the occasional boring news reporting the average consumer doesn't read, like this article. It's clearly a win for Apple.

More people are getting annoyed with Apple over these issues, and they are bleeding into the mainstream media more frequently. I have a few die hard Apple friends (Non-professionals) that have recently got so frustrated with being pushed into corners that they have given up the fruity ecosystem altogether.

In no way am I suggesting that Apple are on the way out, but they have definitely started to turn the same corner that IBM and Microsoft have in the past. They are becoming seen as 'big business' instead of 'challenging underdog'.

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