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AI coding tools can reduce productivity

secondthoughts.ai

71–80 of 284 posts

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#71
post #57

I've been using Claude Code heavily for about 3 months now, and I'm pretty sure I'm between 10 and 20 times more productive while using it. How I measure performance is how many features I can implement in a given period of time. It's nice that people have done studies and have opinions, but for me, it's 10x to 20x better.

Have any open source work you can show off?

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#72
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about the $ you make? isn't that an indicator? you've probably made more than me, so you are more successful while both of us might be doing the same thing.

Is DB2 Admin more productive than Java dev on the same seniority? What about countries? In my Poland $25k would be an amazing salary for a senior while in USA fresh grads can earn $80k. Are they more productive? ... at the same time, given same seniority, job and location - I'd be willing to say it wouldn't be a bad heuristic.

It doesn't undermine your point, but if you mean gross yearly wage $25k is not an amazing salary for senior software developers in Poland (I guess it depends where in Poland).

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#73
post #27
post #24

They averaged producing 47% more code on the AI tasks, but took only 20% more time. The report here biases over these considerations, but I’m left wondering: was the extra code superfluous or did this produce better structure / managed debt better? If that extra 47% of code translates to lower debt and more consistent throughput over the long term, I might take it, given how crushed projects get from debt. Anyway, it…

Honestly my experience from using AI to code (primarily claude sonnet) is that that "extra 47%" is probably itself mostly tech debt. Places where the AI repeated itself instead of using a loop. Places where the AI wrote tests that don't actually test anything. Places where the AI failed to produce a simple abstraction and instead just kept doing the same thing by hand. Etc. AI isn't very good at being concise, in my…

Your response implies the ai produced code was landed without review. That’s a possible outcome but I would hope it’s unlikely to account for the whole group at this scale. We’re of course still lacking data.

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#74
post #57

I've been using Claude Code heavily for about 3 months now, and I'm pretty sure I'm between 10 and 20 times more productive while using it. How I measure performance is how many features I can implement in a given period of time. It's nice that people have done studies and have opinions, but for me, it's 10x to 20x better.

I find the swings to be wild, when you win with it, you win really big. But when you lose with it, it's a real bite out of your week too. And I think 10x to 20x has to be figurative right, you can do 20x by volume maybe, but to borrow an expression from Steve Ballmer, that's like measuring an airplane by kilograms. Someone already operating at the very limit of their abilities doing stuff that is for them high comple…

Let's be serious, what percentage of devs are doing "high complexity, high cognitive load, detail intense" work?

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#75
post #73
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly my experience from using AI to code (primarily claude sonnet) is that that "extra 47%" is probably itself mostly tech debt. Places where the AI repeated itself instead of using a loop. Places where the AI wrote tests that don't actually test anything. Places where the AI failed to produce a simple abstraction and instead just kept doing the same thing by hand. Etc. AI isn't very good at being concise, in my…

Your response implies the ai produced code was landed without review. That’s a possible outcome but I would hope it’s unlikely to account for the whole group at this scale. We’re of course still lacking data.

I very much doubt that when individual programmers are producing significantly more code with the help of AI that somehow the review process simultaneously scales up to perform adequate review of all of that extra code.

In my experience, review was inadequate back before we had AI spewing forth code of dubious quality. There's no reason to think it's any better now.

An actually-useful AI would be one that would make reviews better, do them itself, or at least help me get through reviews faster.

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#76
post #29

I think this for me is the most worrying: "You can see that for AI Allowed tasks, developers spent less time researching and writing code". My analogy to this is seeing people spend time trying to figure out how to change colors, draw shapes in powerpoint, rather than focus on the content and presentation. So here, we have developers now focusing their efforts on correcting the AI output, rather than doing the resear…

This has been my observation too. It's a tool for the lazy.

You can say the same about a printer. Or a kindle, oh you're too lazy to carry around 5 books with you?

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#77

I find LLMs are decent at regurgitating boilerplate. Basically the same kind of stuff you could google then copy-paste... AI chatbots, now that they have web access, are also good at going over documentation and save you a little time searching through the docs yourself. They're not great at business logic though, especially if you're doing anything remotely novel. Which is the difficult part of programming anyway. B…

They're great at helping me figure out how to make something work with a poorly-documented, buggy framework, which is indeed a large fraction of my job, whether I like it or not.

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#78
post #24

They averaged producing 47% more code on the AI tasks, but took only 20% more time. The report here biases over these considerations, but I’m left wondering: was the extra code superfluous or did this produce better structure / managed debt better? If that extra 47% of code translates to lower debt and more consistent throughput over the long term, I might take it, given how crushed projects get from debt. Anyway, it…

> They averaged producing 47% more code on the AI tasks, but took only 20% more time. The report here biases over these considerations, but I’m left wondering: was the extra code superfluous or did this produce better structure / managed debt better? If that extra 47% of code translates to lower debt and more consistent throughput over the long term, I might take it, given how crushed projects get from debt.

Wouldn't it be the opposite? I'd expect the code would be 47% longer because it's worse and heavier in tech debt (e.g. code repeated in multiple places instead of being factored out into a function).

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#79
post #57

I've been using Claude Code heavily for about 3 months now, and I'm pretty sure I'm between 10 and 20 times more productive while using it. How I measure performance is how many features I can implement in a given period of time. It's nice that people have done studies and have opinions, but for me, it's 10x to 20x better.

Have any open source work you can show off?

Unfortunately not, but ensuring the final code quality will be well written is a challenge I am putting off for now.

I'm leaning into the future growth of AI capabilities to help me here, otherwise I'll have to do it myself.

That is a tomorrow problem, too much project structure/functionality to get right first.

Re: AI coding tools can reduce productivity

#80
post #57

I've been using Claude Code heavily for about 3 months now, and I'm pretty sure I'm between 10 and 20 times more productive while using it. How I measure performance is how many features I can implement in a given period of time. It's nice that people have done studies and have opinions, but for me, it's 10x to 20x better.

I cringe when I see these numbers. 20 times better means that you can accomplish in two months what you would do in 4 years, which is ridiculus when said out loud. We can make it even more ridiculous by pointing out you would do in 3 years the work of working lifetime (60 years)

I am wondering, what sort of tasks are you seeing these x20 boost?

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