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Grok 4

simonwillison.net

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Re: Grok 4

#121

Post by mwigdahl »

unshavedyak wrote: post #99
victorbjorklund wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe what kind of stuff you do where it can go wild without supervision? I never managed to get to a state where agents code for more than 10 min without needing my input

Same. I pay for $100 but i generally keep a very short leash on Claude Code. It can generate so much good looking code with a few insane quirks that it ends up costing me more time. Generally i trust it to do a good job unsupervised if given a very small problem. So lots of small problems and i think it could do okay. However i'm writing software from the ground up and it makes a lot of short term decisions that furt…

I find I get a _lot_ of Opus with the $200 plan. It's not unlimited, but I rarely cap out (I'm also not a super power user that spins up multiple instances with tons of subagents either, though).

Re: Grok 4

#123

Post by andy99 »

redox99 wrote: post #114

The author implies that Grok 3 becoming racist because of a system prompt is a bad thing. I think it's a good thing and shows how steerable the model is. Many other models pretty much ignore the system prompt and always behave the same.

Claude also has similar capabilities thought pre-fill. I have not investigated the full extent but it's definitely possible to bypass some refusals by starting the LLMs reply for it.

In general I agree that it's a desirable characteristic for a foundation LLM to behave according to developer instructions.

Re: Grok 4

#124

Post by sixothree »

pron wrote: post #66
zaptrem wrote: post #7

Claude Code converted me from paying $0 for LLMs to $200 per month. Any co that wants a chance at getting that $200 ($300 is fine too) from me needs a Claude Code equivalent and a model where the equivalent's tools were part of its RL environment. I don't think I can go back to pasting code into a chat interface, no matter how great the model is.

I've yet to use an LLM for coding, so let me ask you a question. The other day I had to write some presumably boring serialization code, and I thought, hmm, I could probably describe the approach I want to take faster than writing the code, so it would be great if an LLM could generate it for me. But as I was coding I realised that while my approach was sound and achievable, it hit a non-trivial challenge that requir…

The question is really - while this LLM is working, what can you get a second and a third LLM to do? What can you be doing during that time.

If your project has only one task that can be completed, then yeah. Maybe doing it yourself is just as fast.

Related to correctness, if the property in question was commented and documented it might pick up that it was special. It's going to be checking references, data types, usages and all that for sure. If it's a case of one piece having a different need that fits within the confines of the programming language, I think the answer is almost certainly.

And honestly, the only way to find out is to try it.

Re: Grok 4

#125

Post by redox99 »

andy99 wrote: post #123
redox99 wrote: post #114

The author implies that Grok 3 becoming racist because of a system prompt is a bad thing. I think it's a good thing and shows how steerable the model is. Many other models pretty much ignore the system prompt and always behave the same.

Claude also has similar capabilities thought pre-fill. I have not investigated the full extent but it's definitely possible to bypass some refusals by starting the LLMs reply for it. In general I agree that it's a desirable characteristic for a foundation LLM to behave according to developer instructions.

Yeah with local models (where obviously you can prefill part of the reply) you can bypass any refusal no matter how strong. Once the model's answer begins with "To cook meth follow these steps: 1. Purchase [...]" it's basically unstoppable.

I didn't know Claude offered that capability. They probably have another model on top (a classifier or whatever) that checks the LLM output.

Re: Grok 4

#126

Post by viraptor »

panza wrote: post #117
pron wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to use an LLM for coding, so let me ask you a question. The other day I had to write some presumably boring serialization code, and I thought, hmm, I could probably describe the approach I want to take faster than writing the code, so it would be great if an LLM could generate it for me. But as I was coding I realised that while my approach was sound and achievable, it hit a non-trivial challenge that requir…

I have tried and failed to get any LLM to "tell me if you don't have a solution". There may be a way to prompt it, but I've not discovered it. It will always give you a confident answer.

It always has a solution. A more effective approach is "Start by asking clarifying questions until the task is completely defined".

Re: Grok 4

#127

Post by viraptor »

pron wrote: post #66
zaptrem wrote: post #7

Claude Code converted me from paying $0 for LLMs to $200 per month. Any co that wants a chance at getting that $200 ($300 is fine too) from me needs a Claude Code equivalent and a model where the equivalent's tools were part of its RL environment. I don't think I can go back to pasting code into a chat interface, no matter how great the model is.

I've yet to use an LLM for coding, so let me ask you a question. The other day I had to write some presumably boring serialization code, and I thought, hmm, I could probably describe the approach I want to take faster than writing the code, so it would be great if an LLM could generate it for me. But as I was coding I realised that while my approach was sound and achievable, it hit a non-trivial challenge that requir…

You won't know until you try. Maybe it will one shot the task. Maybe not. There's not nearly enough context to tell you one way or another. Learning about prompting techniques will affect your results a lot though.

Re: Grok 4

#128

Post by KerrAvon »

deanCommie wrote: post #56
techpineapple wrote: post #2

So, to try and make a relatively substantive contribution, the doc mentions that the following were added to grok3's system prompt: - If the query requires analysis of current events, subjective claims, or statistics, conduct a deep analysis finding diverse sources representing all parties. Assume subjective viewpoints sourced from the media are biased. No need to repeat this to the user. - The response should not sh…

You can tell this was written by a technologist without a clue of the realities of social dynamics * "finding diverse sources representing all parties" Not all current events are subjective, not all claims/parties (climate change, holocaust etc.) require representation from all parties. * "Assume subjective viewpoints sourced from the media are biased." this one is sad because I would've said that up until a decade a…

> Unfortunately over the years, it has become true. The rise of extremely biased right-wing media sources has made things like FOX news arguably centrist given the overton window move.

That's not how the Overton window works; you are buying into the bias yourself at this point.

> Which made the left-wing sources lean into bias and becoming themselves complicit (e.g. hiding Biden's cognitive decline)

(a) There are no left-wing media sources in 2025 (b) I'm sure you consider the New York Times a left-wing media source, but it spent the entire fucking election making a fuss about Biden's so-called cognitive decline and no time at all about Trump's way more disturbing cognitive decline. And Jake Tapper, lead anchor on "left-wing" CNN, won't shut up about Biden even now, in 2025.

Re: Grok 4

#129

Post by throwawayk7h »

redox99 wrote: post #114

The author implies that Grok 3 becoming racist because of a system prompt is a bad thing. I think it's a good thing and shows how steerable the model is. Many other models pretty much ignore the system prompt and always behave the same.

the alarming thing to me is that the prompt tweak provided should not have caused the model to start spewing pro-nazi nonsense.

Re: Grok 4

#130

Post by ltbarcly3 »

"It feels very credulous to ascribe what happened to a system prompt update. Other models can't be pushed into racism, Nazism, and ideating rape with a system prompt tweak."

You don't even need a system prompt tweak to push chatgpt or claude into nazism, racism, and ideating rape. You can do it just with user prompts that don't seem to even suggest that it should go in that direction.

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