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The Origin of the Research University

asteriskmag.com

31–40 of 48 posts

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were all educated at universities though.

Yes, but the point is that universities weren't places of research , but learning/teaching.

The article doesn't say much about the role of religion in this matter. Surely what one could study was limited by what was allowed by the church.

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#32
post #4

Great thought provoking article, a lot of starting points for wikipedia deep dives. It's really surprising to me that most of the big name intellectuals from before the 19th century were indeed not doing their work in the university system. I guess it's in nobody's interest to highlight this. Academia wants to present itself as the obvious deposit and trailblazer of knowledge and that it always has been. There is sim…

[deleted]

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#33
post #3

> The students were menaces, given to drunkenness, gambling, dueling, and chronically skipping class. I came across this awhile ago and thought it pretty incredible and interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Scholastica_Day_riot

They also harassed churches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliards#Satirical_poets

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#34
post #4

Great thought provoking article, a lot of starting points for wikipedia deep dives. It's really surprising to me that most of the big name intellectuals from before the 19th century were indeed not doing their work in the university system. I guess it's in nobody's interest to highlight this. Academia wants to present itself as the obvious deposit and trailblazer of knowledge and that it always has been. There is sim…

Also, peer review started in the 1960s. Einstein published a single peer reviewed paper

Also woth noting that Higgs claimed that the publish or perish climate of the 90s would have made his work in the early 60s impossible.

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#35

I am so unimpressed with research universities in the US. Most just accept and neglect undergrad students. They use them as a steady income and have very little intention of providing them with a quality education. I happen to be very close with the dean of arts and science of a major state university. He told me that all of his professional goals given to him by the president and provost had to do with research impa…

There's an argument to be made that at least the bachelor's level should be taught by specialist lecturers who focus on improving didactics and teaching. On the other hand, interacting with someone who is working at the forefront of the field can be helpful when you have a question where a cookie-cutter answer doesn't suffice and expert thought is needed. But it's indeed peculiar that profs are mostly hired based on…

My ideal system involves teaching professors who work at a university, and state run research labs ran by PhDs that collaborate closely with universities, but remain distinct. Argentina has a similar system with CONICET and their public university system.

The support you are talking about with American students I think is a symptom of the cost of higher education in the US. If you are paying $50,000 a year, you're going to expect that the university will do most of the work for you, and honestly, I think that's fair.

Many American students have the attitude of "I paid for the degree, so give it to me", which I cannot fault them for, due to the ridiculous price tag and societal demand to get a bachelors.

In Argentina, on the other hand, where education is free, the attitude among the professors is "if you don't learn this material, you won't pass". I find that very refreshing and more of how an institution of education should actually operate.

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an argument to be made that at least the bachelor's level should be taught by specialist lecturers who focus on improving didactics and teaching. On the other hand, interacting with someone who is working at the forefront of the field can be helpful when you have a question where a cookie-cutter answer doesn't suffice and expert thought is needed. But it's indeed peculiar that profs are mostly hired based on…

My ideal system involves teaching professors who work at a university, and state run research labs ran by PhDs that collaborate closely with universities, but remain distinct. Argentina has a similar system with CONICET and their public university system. The support you are talking about with American students I think is a symptom of the cost of higher education in the US. If you are paying $50,000 a year, you're go…

Indeed, and that can be tied back to the original article. Even if the American system was originally modeled after the German one back then, the two have significantly diverged due to the high tuition fees and downstream "consumer" or "customer" mentality both in students and in administration. It's interesting that outside the Anglo countries, education is mostly free for students, so yeah the attitude is more that the tax payer is giving money for your education, now it's your duty to either take it seriously or go somewhere else. It doesn't mean that everyone is so self-motivated, but a student can't say "I'm paying you, professor, so now dance to my tune".

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#37
post #34
post #4

Great thought provoking article, a lot of starting points for wikipedia deep dives. It's really surprising to me that most of the big name intellectuals from before the 19th century were indeed not doing their work in the university system. I guess it's in nobody's interest to highlight this. Academia wants to present itself as the obvious deposit and trailblazer of knowledge and that it always has been. There is sim…

Also, peer review started in the 1960s. Einstein published a single peer reviewed paper Also woth noting that Higgs claimed that the publish or perish climate of the 90s would have made his work in the early 60s impossible.

> Also woth noting that Higgs claimed that the publish or perish climate of the 90s would have made his work in the early 60s impossible.

I found the posted article interesting in that it seemed to contradict this sentiment. See from the section titled "Göttingen and the birth of modern academia".

Not the 60s vs now comparison, but the article contradicts the idea that "publish or perish" is new. Instead it says that careers depended on publication counts before original research was even expected of university professors.

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#38
post #3

> The students were menaces, given to drunkenness, gambling, dueling, and chronically skipping class. I came across this awhile ago and thought it pretty incredible and interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Scholastica_Day_riot

were the students really surprised about the quality of wine in a place called "Swindlestock Tavern" ? :)

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#39

I am so unimpressed with research universities in the US. Most just accept and neglect undergrad students. They use them as a steady income and have very little intention of providing them with a quality education. I happen to be very close with the dean of arts and science of a major state university. He told me that all of his professional goals given to him by the president and provost had to do with research impa…

There's an argument to be made that at least the bachelor's level should be taught by specialist lecturers who focus on improving didactics and teaching. On the other hand, interacting with someone who is working at the forefront of the field can be helpful when you have a question where a cookie-cutter answer doesn't suffice and expert thought is needed. But it's indeed peculiar that profs are mostly hired based on…

In the US the students (or their parents or grants) are usually paying several orders of magnitude more money to attend University than in Europe, so it makes sense that the expect more support and services.

Re: The Origin of the Research University

#40
A former MIT Lincoln Lab researcher dedicated years of his life to demonstrating, (in purely technical terms) the contributions of mid-19th-c-to-prewar German technologists to science & history. Underpinned by archive citations & scans throughout, it makes for good reading (and requires no purchase to read). Being 4000+ pages, I’ve found it works well as a reference to sci-technical topics of interest to me rather than a front-to-back readthrough.

https://riderinstitute.org/revolutionary-innovation/

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