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Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

blog.thunderbird.net

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Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#181

Post by encom »

blacklion wrote: post #132

«Manual Folder Sorting» — first, they broke 3rd party plugin for that. Next, author (not member of official Thunderbird team or employee of Mozilla) of this plugin spent more than 1 year pushing this functionality into base. Now they highlight it as big deal in new release without mention volunteer author of this BASIC feature which should be in mail client FROM VERSION 0.0.1! It is pity, that Google Mail is «good en…

>Google Mail is «good enough»

I hadn't really used Gmail or Google products much, until I started at my last job, which was balls deep in the ecosystem. I loathed Gmail. One of the worst email "clients" I've used. After toggling a load of stuff in its settings it was usable, but dealing with email was a low point of my work day.

New job is Microsoft based, so Outlook, and I haven't used that in 20 years, so it will be interesting to see how enshittified it has become. I will have to run Windows on my work pc, which I'm not looking forward to.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#182

Post by encom »

isaachinman wrote: post #112
throwaway81523 wrote: post #19

Could they just make it not suck? Like the search system falls apart if you have more than a few thousand messages in a folder, not all that many by today's standards. The address book doesn't let you sort the addresses by most recently added, which is important if you reply to craigslist posts which use numeric forwarding addresses. So once you have more than a handful of them the are impossible to tell apart. It au…

Check out what we're building: https://marcoapp.io Basically a cross-platform Thunderbird replacement whose sole goal is to "not suck". Full-text search is entirely client side (not via IMAP) and returns results in single-digit ms.

>not suck

>web-tech

Pick one.

I couldn't find any info on whether this is FOSS or what license it uses.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#183

Post by krunck »

fouronnes3 wrote: post #16

I wanted to love Thunderbird, used it for years then a bug [0] literally deleted all my emails. I regularly see updates of people understandably raging on the ticket :( It's a bug that literally deletes user data from both the server and the client without warning. It's been open and confirmed for 17 years straight. It could happen to you. How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_…

I've been using TB for personal and work since it's first day and never hit the bug. I've never known any co-workers to hit the bug. I'm sure plenty of other software that we use every day has similar severe bugs that occur just as infrequently.

I'll keep using TB. I'll also make sure to look both ways when crossing streets and won't assume that cars are going to stop for red lights because my chance of getting hit crossing a street is more likely than getting hit by this bug.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#184

Post by II2II »

Yizahi wrote: post #145
Jaxan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof that is bad. > How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? Maybe because it is very rare? I have been using thunderbird for 10 years now on various OSes and never had issues.

It's like a car whose engine randomly shuts down with a very low reproduction rate. Except with cars when this happened GM has recalled 30 million cars and paid billions of fines. Emails to email client is an engine to the car. It is pointless without one and it is THE purpose of it. All the rest of functionality like fancy UI, filter, notifications, editor is meaningless if your emails were deleted without recovery.…

The big difference is a car with an engine that randomly shuts down is a life-and-limb safety issue. An email client that corrupts the database is extremely unlikely to cause a loss of life, even if the consequences are costly.

That said, even if the bug is impossible to isolate, it sounds like the chain of events that leads to it is known. They probably should disable the feature until someone is motivated to fix or replace the code. I'm sure that would anger a lot of people, but someone angry about the loss of a feature is probably better than someone who is angry at the loss of data. Especially given that the feature seems to be something someone would use to archive their mail.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#185

Post by tareqak »

amendegree wrote: post #125
goku12 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the bug was filed in 2008. Back then, Rust was Graydon Hoare's personal project that Mozilla wouldn't start funding until a year later. Rust was written in OCaml and the famed borrow checker wouldn't be in place until 2010. The first public release was v0.1 in 2012 and the first stable release 1.0 wouldn't happen till 2015. The language was very different back then with sigils, garbage collection and green thr…

The op is being facetious

Sometimes, treating a facetious/sarcastic request seriously helps disarm the facetiousness. Other times, it does not.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#186

Post by thundarr »

CJefferson wrote: post #34
thundarr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has to be reproducible. Help make it reproducible and show that to the developers.

How about this bug, which I submitted 13 years ago and still isn't fixed. You can't search for "wedding" : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752844 I've been amazed over the years this has never been fixed -- it's very hard not to make jokes about the standard lifestyle of open-source programmers, that they don't consider this a priority (note: that's a joke, I consider myself an open-source programmer. I…

The filter/search feature in Thunderbird does not appear to have a way to search for exact matches. You want exact matches. First, identify if it can do exact matches and if so, expose to the user. Else, who wants to touch that code?

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#187

Post by thundarr »

smokel wrote: post #59
thundarr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has to be reproducible. Help make it reproducible and show that to the developers.

Nitpick: not all bugs have to be reproducible to be taken seriously. Defensive programming, and adding extra logging could be a mitigation to avoid future problems, or to help fixing them in the future.

That specific bug needs reproducible steps. How would you try to work it out if it does not happen on your setup?

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#188

Post by thundarr »

nehal3m wrote: post #22
thundarr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has to be reproducible. Help make it reproducible and show that to the developers.

Hard to do when all your data is chilling in oblivion.

You can take snapshots of the VM with the mail server. When the bug happens, identify the snapshot. Bingo.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#189

Post by Xss3 »

Jaxan wrote: post #30
fouronnes3 wrote: post #16

I wanted to love Thunderbird, used it for years then a bug [0] literally deleted all my emails. I regularly see updates of people understandably raging on the ticket :( It's a bug that literally deletes user data from both the server and the client without warning. It's been open and confirmed for 17 years straight. It could happen to you. How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_…

Oof that is bad. > How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? Maybe because it is very rare? I have been using thunderbird for 10 years now on various OSes and never had issues.

That may be but i immediately uninstalled Thunderbird from all my devices upon seeing that its low priority and unassigned.

I wont be using any email client that can break and delete all my emails from local and the server. Why would i? It may be a lottery but it isnt one i want to play.

The fact that they see this as low priority shows theyre morons.

Who would say 'yes please' to an email client that might permanently destroy some of your most important data at random?

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#190

Post by Xss3 »

Aachen wrote: post #135
severino wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can fix it by redownloading the message from the server But OP said it also deletes the message in the server, so it may be a different bug, right?

Note that this is why you use copy, check, then delete, instead of just "move" data, whenever it's important that the process works correctly Even if the software doesn't have known bugs, I do it if the data is important enough and especially if I were to not have a backup (for example, because the storage provider takes care of backups and redundancy. I personally like to have another copy that I manage myself, but…

No. The bug happens with copying.
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