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Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

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Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#401

Post by EvanAnderson »

cogman10 wrote: post #388
1970-01-01 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does not necessarily need to be a battery. Flywheels, heat, and even synthesis of fuels are also solutions to the problem.

If you look at the energy density, cost/kwh, and lifetime maintenance of most of those, you'll find that batteries handily win. Further, batteries have room for innovation and growth in all those categories. We won't, for example, make a more cost-efficient flywheel or heat storage. They are effectively as efficient as they'll ever be. IMO, it necessarily has to be batteries. The other alternatives are nowhere near a…

At grid scale I'd imagine that pumped hydroelectric storage would beat batteries for TCO, but there are significant geographic constraints.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#402

Post by louwrentius »

CoolChum wrote: post #257
louwrentius wrote: post #191

In Star Trek The Next Generation, energy is a 'solved problem'. Material needs are also a 'solved problem'. Money doesn't exist anymore. I think at least 70% of the Hacker News crowd would hate this world because they would have no idea what to do with their life under these circumstances. What is life about except turning a profit? How can you have power over other people? Feel important with all your money? Look at…

> In Star Trek The Next Generation, energy is a 'solved problem'. In later Star Trek shows of the same era they show that it isn't really. A major plot point of voyager is them having to save power because they can't get the resources to keep the ship running. It kinda forgotten about later, but it shows that whatever power sources they are using isn't infinite and is still finite. > Material needs are also a 'solved…

All I read is that you are part of the 70% that has no idea what to do in life when money and power doesn't matter anymore.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#403

Post by conradev »

rel_ic wrote: post #347

Renewable energy is great, but we're not replacing fossil fuels with it, we're just adding more energy usage. And our energy usage is destroying the environment. Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage. https://pocketcasts.com/podcasts/b3b696c0-226d-0137-f265-1d2...

If by "we" you mean California, then "we" are going to pass the following milestones with solar + batteries fairly soon:

- Solar and storage is cheaper than building a new natural gas peaker plant in most locales (current majority of generation)

- Dispatching battery plants becomes cheaper than turning on existing peaker plants. Fuel is free, dispatch is instant, they can add inertia.

If by "we" you mean the rest of the world, China is manufacturing and installing the most renewable energy of any country in the world by far – and it's not enough to meet their demand. That's why they're also deploying more coal and nuclear than anyone else, too! They're probably building more electric vehicles than any other country, too, which is huge for their air quality.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#404

Post by GratiaTerra »

papaver-somnamb wrote: post #221

Tony Seba around 10 years ago predicted (among many other things) that ~2024 the cost of generating a unit of electricity onsite with PV will cost less than merely delivering the same unit of electricity over transmission infrastructure, not even considering the cost of generating that unit. Nowadays he is diving into what he terms the phase change disruptions where he explores and thinks out the ramifications of the…

I agree, personal energy abundance is disruptive: * Utility decentralization, economic liberation from near zero marginal cost of energy after initial investment. * Geo political: reduced dependence on hydrocarbon fuels, energy sovereignty * Transportation: every home is becomes a 'gas station' to recharge EVs, or for the EVs to charge the house in case of low house batteries (as opposed to ICE generator) * Climate: no hydrocarbons burned => no pollution * Technological civilization: abundant clean energy creates a feedback loop of innovation in energy production, storage, AI and networking * new business models from energy as a service

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#405

Post by Dylan16807 »

speeder wrote: post #373
fred_is_fred wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukranians are 3d printing millions of missiles in their basements?

They might use rotating wings to fly instead of jet turbines, but yes. EDIT: To make things clearer, the word Missile is quite old, and predates rockets. missile is any object that is propelled somehow to hit a target. So even a stone launched from a sling by a caveman is already a missile. The other guy mentioned precision guided missiles though... and he is still correct in the word usage there.

I don't know, I'd say once you reach a certain amount of control over your flight path you stop being a missile. An aircraft isn't really "projected toward" something.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#406

Post by ZeroGravitas »

DrBazza wrote: post #377
rel_ic wrote: post #347

Renewable energy is great, but we're not replacing fossil fuels with it, we're just adding more energy usage. And our energy usage is destroying the environment. Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage. https://pocketcasts.com/podcasts/b3b696c0-226d-0137-f265-1d2...

Can anyone point me a genuinely unbiased comparison of solar, wind, coal, oil, nuclear and hydro, in a reputable scientific journal that covers all of the 'criticisms' that are raised for some but not others? There's at least: - creation of infrastructure - maintenance of infrastructure - mining/acquiring fuel - waste fuel - retirement of infrastructure and then for each point: - something like cost per MWh, - human…

Oxford University's Our World in Data collates this kind of thing from reputable sources.

What are the safest and cleanest sources of energy?

https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

Low-carbon technologies need far less mining than fossil fuels

https://ourworldindata.org/low-carbon-technologies-need-far-...

Why did renewables become so cheap so fast?

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#407

Post by DrBazza »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #396
DrBazza wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone point me a genuinely unbiased comparison of solar, wind, coal, oil, nuclear and hydro, in a reputable scientific journal that covers all of the 'criticisms' that are raised for some but not others? There's at least: - creation of infrastructure - maintenance of infrastructure - mining/acquiring fuel - waste fuel - retirement of infrastructure and then for each point: - something like cost per MWh, - human…

This is an active area that is exceedingly difficult if not outright impossible to do. The nature of any project is inherently fractal, and trying to assign a impact to each part is all over the map, and anyone with any agenda or bias can move the 1000 little sliders enough that it adds up to what they ultimately want to see. You get stuff like: "Lets assume all the trucks are old and need to drive up hill to deliver…

On the other hand the points I listed are sufficiently coarse grained and the cost or expense of most of those can be estimated.

Deaths due to coal mining? Probably in the hundreds of thousands. Animals killed by oil slicks? Millions. Deaths due to fossil fuels via climate change? Millions. Animals (and people) killed by solar? Statistically insignificant in comparison.

The repeated cost of 'trucks driving up a hill', and the cost of fuel for those lorries, and so on, is indeed 'fractal'. However the oil consumed by a power station dwarfs that.

Strip mining thousands of square miles for coal, or steel, or rare-earths, or simply just 'square miles' to bury old wind turbine blades, is very much quantifiable.

And these are all the kinds of points that are used to denigrate one form of power 'I don't like', but aren't talked about for other forms 'I do like'.

Hence my original question, a like-for-like comparison in a reputable scientific journal.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#408

Post by DrBazza »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #406
DrBazza wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone point me a genuinely unbiased comparison of solar, wind, coal, oil, nuclear and hydro, in a reputable scientific journal that covers all of the 'criticisms' that are raised for some but not others? There's at least: - creation of infrastructure - maintenance of infrastructure - mining/acquiring fuel - waste fuel - retirement of infrastructure and then for each point: - something like cost per MWh, - human…

Oxford University's Our World in Data collates this kind of thing from reputable sources. What are the safest and cleanest sources of energy? https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy Low-carbon technologies need far less mining than fossil fuels https://ourworldindata.org/low-carbon-technologies-need-far-... Why did renewables become so cheap so fast? https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

I've looked at these before, and the charts are nice, but I feel like there's a better way of displaying the data in some sort of matrix.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#409

Post by ZeroGravitas »

DrBazza wrote: post #408
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxford University's Our World in Data collates this kind of thing from reputable sources. What are the safest and cleanest sources of energy? https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy Low-carbon technologies need far less mining than fossil fuels https://ourworldindata.org/low-carbon-technologies-need-far-... Why did renewables become so cheap so fast? https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

I've looked at these before, and the charts are nice, but I feel like there's a better way of displaying the data in some sort of matrix.

Some of the graphs have options to switch to multiple comparisons, or to log scale and similar. They often have table formats and allow you to download the data for your own use.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#410

Post by kibwen »

myself248 wrote: post #306
loudmax wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some level all fossil fuels come from the sun. Fossil fuels come from biomass accumulated over millions of years. The energy that went into gathering all that carbon and hydrocarbons came from the sun. Take it a step further and nearly all our energy comes from nuclear fusion, with the exceptions you noted.

I refer to my solar panels as nuclear power, just to mess with people: I use a gravitationally-confined fusion reactor, and pull power out of it by allowing the radiation to excite unbound electron-hole pairs in a semiconductor substrate. It's dangerous; even miles away from the reactor itself I can't expose myself to the radiation for too long or I get a painful skin reaction, and that might lead to cancer someday,…

> I refer to my solar panels as nuclear power, just to mess with people

Solar is actually fusion power, which is way cooler than any fission plant that puny humans have ever constructed.

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