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Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

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Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#381

Post by agumonkey »

amarait wrote: post #348
rel_ic wrote: post #347

Renewable energy is great, but we're not replacing fossil fuels with it, we're just adding more energy usage. And our energy usage is destroying the environment. Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage. https://pocketcasts.com/podcasts/b3b696c0-226d-0137-f265-1d2...

What replaces fossil fuels is some kind of breakthrough in batteries. At the moment its getting better every year were currently at less than $100 per KWh which is crazy but needs to be improved for allowing more off the grid energy consumption

there's also a lot of wastes, with different urban planning and build code a lot of cooling and heating would be avoided

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#382

Post by triceratops »

carra wrote: post #376
amarait wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What replaces fossil fuels is some kind of breakthrough in batteries. At the moment its getting better every year were currently at less than $100 per KWh which is crazy but needs to be improved for allowing more off the grid energy consumption

We are also going to need a breakthrough in how batteries are produced and disposed of. Otherwise the environmental impact of the many millions of batteries themselves may prove unsustainable too.

Funny how no one seems to consider the environmental impact of digging up fossil fuels when they discuss solar.

It's similar to how you can identify Real Bird Lovers. They stay silent when they see pictures of oil-covered birds after an Exxon Valdez or a Deepwater Horizon. Show them a windmill and boy do they get passionate about bird safety and welfare.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#383

Post by triceratops »

fastball wrote: post #366
pydry wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can either pray and wait for a technological breakthrough that makes storage tech way cheaper than gas or we can just use taxes and subsidies to make it happen now. It's not so hard. Lavish subsidies were used to make nuclear power semi-sort-of-competitive even though it's way more expensive. The same thing could have been done with solar and wind but apparently we thought the best course of action was just to wai…

Or we can go full nuclear.

Get private insurance to fully cover nuclear and I'm onboard.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#384

Post by ddxv »

rel_ic wrote: post #347

Renewable energy is great, but we're not replacing fossil fuels with it, we're just adding more energy usage. And our energy usage is destroying the environment. Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage. https://pocketcasts.com/podcasts/b3b696c0-226d-0137-f265-1d2...

I grew up in a rural house that is off grid. My parents used to run a gasoline generator whenever they wanted electricity. As kids, to watch movies, this was all the time. As they got older, got phones, satellite internet etc their gasoline use went up a lot.

They had solar since the 90s but it was broken panels (which still work, they basically never die). Finally last year I had the time and money to put in a big new solar setup for them. Now they don't need the generator except during prolonged storms in December (even then I don't think they need it, just like using it).

The main benefits: 1) Pays for itself in 3 years 2) No more gasoline generator (loud, smelly) 3) No more trips to get gasoline. No more parents carrying 5 gallon gas cans around. 4) Allows parents to get A/C for first time.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#385

Post by 1970-01-01 »

amarait wrote: post #348
rel_ic wrote: post #347

Renewable energy is great, but we're not replacing fossil fuels with it, we're just adding more energy usage. And our energy usage is destroying the environment. Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage. https://pocketcasts.com/podcasts/b3b696c0-226d-0137-f265-1d2...

What replaces fossil fuels is some kind of breakthrough in batteries. At the moment its getting better every year were currently at less than $100 per KWh which is crazy but needs to be improved for allowing more off the grid energy consumption

Does not necessarily need to be a battery. Flywheels, heat, and even synthesis of fuels are also solutions to the problem.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#386

Post by fpoling »

myrmidon wrote: post #169
fpoling wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If electricity is sufficiently cheap it can be cheaper to capture carbon from the atmosphere for chemical industry than to use oil or coal there.

If you actually use captured carbon for something productive like synthetic fuel (where CO2 gets re-emitted) you are kinda ruining the point though. Thats what makes this even less attractive-- those plants are expensive to build and operate and you can't even really use the product in the most obvious ways.

This about using carbon for chemical industry.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#387

Post by Aurornis »

rel_ic wrote: post #347

Renewable energy is great, but we're not replacing fossil fuels with it, we're just adding more energy usage. And our energy usage is destroying the environment. Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage. https://pocketcasts.com/podcasts/b3b696c0-226d-0137-f265-1d2...

> Don't let these advancements in solar make you think things are getting better. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage, not just increase solar usage.

The advancements in solar and battery storage are accelerating. It's not a linear 1:1 relationship where new solar goes into new usage. As we get better at building and deploying solar, the cost continues to decline. The more the cost declines, the faster the rollout.

So the advancements in solar really are making things better. This is a long-term, cumulative process.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#388

Post by cogman10 »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #385
amarait wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What replaces fossil fuels is some kind of breakthrough in batteries. At the moment its getting better every year were currently at less than $100 per KWh which is crazy but needs to be improved for allowing more off the grid energy consumption

Does not necessarily need to be a battery. Flywheels, heat, and even synthesis of fuels are also solutions to the problem.

If you look at the energy density, cost/kwh, and lifetime maintenance of most of those, you'll find that batteries handily win. Further, batteries have room for innovation and growth in all those categories.

We won't, for example, make a more cost-efficient flywheel or heat storage. They are effectively as efficient as they'll ever be.

IMO, it necessarily has to be batteries. The other alternatives are nowhere near as good.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#389

Post by fpoling »

HPsquared wrote: post #157
ben_w wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said "If electricity is sufficiently cheap", which is less a claim and more a tautology. Will it be that cheap? I think so, given that trees and grass etc. exist and get their carbon from the air.

Even with free electricity, the capital (and maintenance, consumables etc) costs of the process could easily be too high.

Consider a chemical synthesis that needs carbon. Right now it uses oil. But is has to be extracted and transported. With carbon capture from the air that no longer required. And maintaining the extra facility at the chemical factory can be cheaper than maintaining the extraction and supply chain for oil or coal.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#390

Post by cogman10 »

agumonkey wrote: post #381
amarait wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What replaces fossil fuels is some kind of breakthrough in batteries. At the moment its getting better every year were currently at less than $100 per KWh which is crazy but needs to be improved for allowing more off the grid energy consumption

there's also a lot of wastes, with different urban planning and build code a lot of cooling and heating would be avoided

I think this is the most frustrating part. You wouldn't even need to massively change out neighborhoods to get a huge benefit. If a developer built with district and heating planned, you could have an entire neighborhood heated and cooled without needed AC and heaters in every building. You could still have single family homes that are massively more efficient per unit.

The problem is that has to be planned almost from the beginning. Which shouldn't be a huge deal. My neighborhood had a water tower built at the same time the neighborhood was built. There's no reason district heating couldn't have occupied the lot right next to it.

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