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Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

blog.thunderbird.net

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Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#141

Post by dreamcompiler »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #102
throwaway81523 wrote: post #19

Could they just make it not suck? Like the search system falls apart if you have more than a few thousand messages in a folder, not all that many by today's standards. The address book doesn't let you sort the addresses by most recently added, which is important if you reply to craigslist posts which use numeric forwarding addresses. So once you have more than a handful of them the are impossible to tell apart. It au…

> Like the search system falls apart if you have more than a few thousand messages in a folder I'm in the inbox, I see an email with 'word' in the Subject in some of the most recent emails. I type 'word' in the search box and TB finds some emails from the years ago. It's even worse if it is 'word and some another word', in this case it doesn't even find anything. It's like the developers... aren't dogfooding their ow…

The two search boxes is bizarre. It feels like two rival programmers each wrote a half-baked search feature and rather than management telling them "Unify your two approaches", instead they said "Just throw them both in there and let the user figure out which one they want."

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#142

Post by ptx »

> While we can’t change the universe, you can now get the latest Thunderbird features as they land, instead of once a year. Switch to Thunderbird Release and enjoy monthly updates with the same dependable stability.

Does this mean anything or is it some sort of marketing gobbledygook? We can now get features faster by using the latest release rather than the ESR – but surely non-ESR releases have always been available, so this was always the case, not only now suddenly?

Also, the "dependable stability" we enjoy with the ESR release comes precisely from the software not constantly changing underneath us, i.e. from not getting new features every month.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#143

Post by wavemode »

nativeit wrote: post #86
sonthonax wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, parent comment is deeply unserious. Imagine you're writing trading software, you have an algo go haywire and it machine guns the whole order book, and then you refuse to put a "max order size" outside of the algo to stop it from happening again because you can't figure out why it happened in the first place. Try telling a regulator or your boss that was your reasoning.

How many one-off band aids do you think should be applied for rare, never reproduced problems before you slap a “100% safe” label on it and ship it with the confidence of a bloated, cruft-ridden job well done?

Are you arguing in bad faith, or do you just not have any practical experience dealing with complex systems?

Even if the bug can't be reproduced, on the basis of multiple user reports the first step absolutely should be to add some assertions and logging around email deletion.

The point is not to give it a "100% safe" label, the point is to start narrowing down possible root causes. If the problem recurs again, you'll have assertions ruling out certain possible culprit code paths as well as logs displaying the values of relevant variables.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#144

Post by alberth »

blacklion wrote: post #132

«Manual Folder Sorting» — first, they broke 3rd party plugin for that. Next, author (not member of official Thunderbird team or employee of Mozilla) of this plugin spent more than 1 year pushing this functionality into base. Now they highlight it as big deal in new release without mention volunteer author of this BASIC feature which should be in mail client FROM VERSION 0.0.1! It is pity, that Google Mail is «good en…

> It is pity, that Google Mail is «good enough» and it killed development of good desktop e-mail clients.

You have to remember that when Gmail was launched it was considerably better than most desktop mail clients at the time.

It had auto-complete for who you wanted to email (prior you had to manually type their email address).

It came with an eye watering amount of storage (1 GB).

Worked from any computer (when POP was common and downloaded the emails locally to that desktop computer).

And more.

So it wasn’t so much that Gmail is “good enough”. It was more like desktop clients saw how much better Gmail was and didn’t think they could compete - also given that Google provided the hosting as well which allowed for tighter integration - something a desktop app alone could ever do.

Note: I'm not saying I think Gmail is a great experience. For web, I personally really enjoy Fastmail and for desktop - I surprisingly have grown to like Outlook. What I am saying is that when Gmail was launched, it took a lot of wind out of the sails of desktop mail app creators.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#145

Post by Yizahi »

Jaxan wrote: post #30
fouronnes3 wrote: post #16

I wanted to love Thunderbird, used it for years then a bug [0] literally deleted all my emails. I regularly see updates of people understandably raging on the ticket :( It's a bug that literally deletes user data from both the server and the client without warning. It's been open and confirmed for 17 years straight. It could happen to you. How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_…

Oof that is bad. > How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? Maybe because it is very rare? I have been using thunderbird for 10 years now on various OSes and never had issues.

It's like a car whose engine randomly shuts down with a very low reproduction rate. Except with cars when this happened GM has recalled 30 million cars and paid billions of fines.

Emails to email client is an engine to the car. It is pointless without one and it is THE purpose of it. All the rest of functionality like fancy UI, filter, notifications, editor is meaningless if your emails were deleted without recovery. Even car without engine is more useful than email client with empty DB.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#146

Post by jabroni_salad »

justinrubek wrote: post #119
Barrin92 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person in question has a relatively rare medical condition, for most people dark mode reduces readability as a darker screen leads to more pupil dilation which causes halation. (which you can test out yourself if you stare at dark mode text and then look at a bright surface, you'll likely literally see a halo of the text). This is worse in people with astigmatism, which is about 35-50% of the population. Dark mod…

Surely this can't be that universal, right? I will have to do this test at some point. I have astigmatism but I find the default bright version of websites frequently painful to look at. I have no clue why but I need the dark versions.

My strategy has been to use light mode all around but I have f.lux set to about 20% strength all day long. I also have my monitors dimmed a fair amount unless I want to display HDR. It also helps to have a bias light behind your screens if you can.

My goal was to get rid of the 2pm eye twitch and I've mostly got it.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#147

Post by kot-behemoth »

perdomon wrote: post #133

I have not used Thunderbird in 15 years, but I'm desperate for a decent email client. I've used Spark, Mailspring, Airmail...but I keep coming back to the MacOS Mail app. Any active users of Thunderbird who chose it over the default Mac mail client? Does it have a unified inbox for all your accounts? Dark mode looks neat, at least.

macOS Mail app is still the best native e-mail client in my experience.

I have switched to Thunderbird full-time since I switched to Linux. Can confirm it supports unified inbox.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#148

Post by Aachen »

giingyui wrote: post #109
dangus wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you’re asking for that person to fix, it’s just plain text and a plain dark background. You can also read the site in reader mode.

If you have astigmatism dark mode is hell. Should be called nausea mode.

First time I hear someone describe nausea from dark mode. Quickly looked astigmatism up on Wikipedia - isn't that something glasses fully correct? I think I've got this as well, but not sure, I've just always had glasses and take whatever they measure to be the best possible lens

(Of course I critically evaluate the measurement, like one time I actually couldn't read faraway text with what they were proposing whereas I could with my old glasses. But I don't know the exact values or terms for the different defects, I think my eyes have at least three different issues including something about rotation as astigmatism apparently means)

I guess what I'm asking is why you don't have glasses. Are they too expensive in your area, or the defect only very minor so it doesn't impede safety when driving even on highways? (Then I'm surprised you get nauseous though, since I don't when I read anything without glasses, regardless of dark or light mode.) Or if you do have glasses, is this still an issue while wearing them? If so, any idea why?

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#149

Post by __turbobrew__ »

fouronnes3 wrote: post #16

I wanted to love Thunderbird, used it for years then a bug [0] literally deleted all my emails. I regularly see updates of people understandably raging on the ticket :( It's a bug that literally deletes user data from both the server and the client without warning. It's been open and confirmed for 17 years straight. It could happen to you. How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_…

6 years between the initial bug report and someone from mozilla joining the thread, wow.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#150

Post by sosborn »

fouronnes3 wrote: post #16

I wanted to love Thunderbird, used it for years then a bug [0] literally deleted all my emails. I regularly see updates of people understandably raging on the ticket :( It's a bug that literally deletes user data from both the server and the client without warning. It's been open and confirmed for 17 years straight. It could happen to you. How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_…

I got bit by this a long time ago. Will never trust Thunderbird again.
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