Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system • Hacker News Board

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#281

Post by pydry » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:28 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #272

buckle8017 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better grid connections helps with variable weather but it does nothing for solar biggest down side. Seasonal variation from December to May is enormous. Storing months of power is a problem with no known solution.

Power2Gas and using the existing infrastructure for gas storage is a known solution for storing months of power. It might not be the cheapest solution though.

Power2gas+solar/wind produced energy is a lot more expensive than natural gas and requires solar/wind to routinely overproduce.

...hence why there isnt much of it. It either requires subsidies or for natural gas to be taxed more.

Windless night produced electricity from stored solar energy via windgas is still cheaper than nuclear power produced on sunny, windy days though: https://theecologist.org/2016/feb/17/wind-power-windgas-chea...

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#282

Post by hypfer » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:29 AM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #191

In Star Trek The Next Generation, energy is a 'solved problem'. Material needs are also a 'solved problem'. Money doesn't exist anymore. I think at least 70% of the Hacker News crowd would hate this world because they would have no idea what to do with their life under these circumstances. What is life about except turning a profit? How can you have power over other people? Feel important with all your money? Look at…

> I think at least 70% of the Hacker News crowd would hate this world because they would have no idea what to do with their life under these circumstances.

> What is life about except turning a profit? How can you have power over other people? Feel important with all your money?

Man, I feel you. HN as this small window into the soul of the silicon valley is best consumed only in very small doses.

Thank you for your work and stay how and who you are.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#283

Post by berkes » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:29 AM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #180

jillesvangurp wrote: post #175

The article doesn't mention a technology that deserves some attention because it counters the biggest and most obvious deficiency in solar: the sun doesn't always shine. That technology is cables. Cables allow us to move energy over long distances. And with HVCD cables that can mean across continents, oceans, time zones, and climate regions. The nice things about cables is that they are currently being underutilized.…

Any country relying on international cables for electricity would need to build and maintain full local backup power capacity. The combined cost of cables + backup may be more than storage cost. (Of course there are many factors which affect all these costs)

> maintain full local backup power capacity.

Not necessarily. If connectivity is broad and the network graph is decentralized, rerouting should cover some of the backup.

For example, if Luxembourg goes to war with Belgium, and Belgium shuts down the lines to Luxembourg, then they can reroute via Germany or France (provided they have lines there, obv). But if Spain gets beef with France, and France cuts the lines, they cannot easily reroute. So Spain would need more backup and more independence (and prolly cables to Italy and Africa?). Point being:

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#284

Post by myrmidon » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #198

overfeed wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are also limited the incentives to that make us cut tree for money, and not develop technologies if they are not profitable within a short time-window. We have the technology to plant more trees right now, but we aren't.

People plant loads of trees for lumber, but you're right, it's an economics question in the end. This actually means I'm also worried about something currently impossible: that when we do develop the tech sufficiently to be useful, if it's cheap enough to be profitable, nothing would seem to stop extraction. So CO2 goes down to, what, 300ppm? Pre-industrial? Ice age? Same coin, other side. We want to flip a coin and…

> that when we do develop the tech sufficiently to be useful, if it's cheap enough to be profitable, nothing would seem to stop extraction. So CO2 goes down to, what, 300ppm?

This is an extremely improbable scenario, for several reasons:

1) If you actually use the extracted CO2, then it gets re-emitted on use, and the atmospheric concentration is virtually unaffected.

2) Concentration difference alone makes it very unlikely that we'll ever extract CO2 as cheaply as O2 from ambient air (or carbon from a mine), and CO2 is not really an appealing ressource compared to its components, either (so demand would presumable be pretty low for centuries, even if the price comes down a lot).

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#285

Post by dzhiurgis » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:33 AM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #175

The article doesn't mention a technology that deserves some attention because it counters the biggest and most obvious deficiency in solar: the sun doesn't always shine. That technology is cables. Cables allow us to move energy over long distances. And with HVCD cables that can mean across continents, oceans, time zones, and climate regions. The nice things about cables is that they are currently being underutilized.…

Few years ago I was super hyped about HVDC across the ocean too. LCOE over batteries seemed no brainer.

Now I am not so sure anymore, especially most of the power is going to be powering AI datacenters and it's far easier to locate datacenter near cheap solar than put tons of cables around the world.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#286

Post by loudmax » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:34 AM UTC

rpozarickij wrote: post #179

> Solar power is now growing faster than any power source in history, and it is closely followed by wind power—which is really another form of energy from the sun, since it is differential heating of the earth that produces the wind that turns the turbines. It's interesting to realize that the vast majority of the energy used by humans comes from the sun (with the exception of nuclear and geothermal energy). Even hyd…

At some level all fossil fuels come from the sun. Fossil fuels come from biomass accumulated over millions of years. The energy that went into gathering all that carbon and hydrocarbons came from the sun.

Take it a step further and nearly all our energy comes from nuclear fusion, with the exceptions you noted.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#287

Post by cycomanic » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:34 AM UTC

decimalenough wrote: post #206

thomascountz wrote: post #102

> ...people are now putting up a gigawatt’s worth of solar panels, the rough equivalent of the power generated by one coal-fired plant, every fifteen hours. This is amazing! Whether you believe photovoltaics are the most efficient form of green energy production or not, you cannot argue the impressive economics behind them. Successful engineering has to meet the market at the end of the day.

It is, unfortunately, also an apples to oranges comparison. A coal plant actually generates 1GW, 24/7, while "a gigawatt's worth" of solar panels is theoretical peak capacity at noon on a cloudless day.

> It is, unfortunately, also an apples to oranges comparison. A coal plant actually generates 1GW, 24/7, while "a gigawatt's worth" of solar panels is theoretical peak capacity at noon on a cloudless day.

That's incorrect. The capacity factor of a coal plant is between 50% and 60%. That's far away from 100% although better than solar (but not that much better) with capacity factors ranging from 15%-30% [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor].

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#288

Post by CorrectHorseBat » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:36 AM UTC

berkes wrote: post #280

jillesvangurp wrote: post #175

The article doesn't mention a technology that deserves some attention because it counters the biggest and most obvious deficiency in solar: the sun doesn't always shine. That technology is cables. Cables allow us to move energy over long distances. And with HVCD cables that can mean across continents, oceans, time zones, and climate regions. The nice things about cables is that they are currently being underutilized.…

Interesting side effect is that this reliance on cables introduces a dependency on copper which already is in short supply and which can be mined only in specific regions. So it re-introduces some geo-political dependencies. Not in the way fossil fuels or unranium do, because a copper cable won't "burn up" to produce the energy, but they do need some upkeep. Another dependency this introduces is the network itself. A…

Cables can be made out of aluminium, so that's not really an issue

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#289

Post by dgfitz » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:39 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #184

jillesvangurp wrote: post #175

The article doesn't mention a technology that deserves some attention because it counters the biggest and most obvious deficiency in solar: the sun doesn't always shine. That technology is cables. Cables allow us to move energy over long distances. And with HVCD cables that can mean across continents, oceans, time zones, and climate regions. The nice things about cables is that they are currently being underutilized.…

Plausible alternatives to cables include ships full of synthetic diesel, ships full of iron, ships full of aluminum, or ships full of magnesium. Inside China HVDC cables are indeed carrying solar power across the continent, but the Netherlands have not managed to erect any yet. Cables provide efficient JIT power delivery, but they're vulnerable to precision-guided missiles, which Ukrainians are 3-D printing in their…

As long as we all realize you can’t 3D print precision-guided missiles without, well, the guidance bit.

Re: Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

#290

Post by loudmax » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 11:41 AM UTC

cheschire wrote: post #253

ErigmolCt wrote: post #132

While the US is busy trying to revive the oil-soaked 20th century, places like Namibia are leapfrogging straight into a distributed, solar-powered future with YouTube tutorials... It's like watching the fossil era get out-hustled in real time.

Those are vastly different scales you’re comparing. I doubt Namibia vs America will be another Tesla vs Ford. The whole point of the current American efforts about oil seems to be reinvigorating economic growth. Oil supply chains are a lot easier to manipulate into growth strategies than renewables. Countries that have leapfrogged into energy independence are doing great but thats not hustle. They’re ensuring their i…

Reinvigorating economic growth is the stated intent. The effectiveness of these policies will take longer to sort out, and will probably be argued over for decades.

But I think even ascribing economic growth as the intent is generous. The economy was already growing vigorously. Most of the policies we're seeing now are performative posturing.