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US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

arstechnica.com

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Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#201

Post by aqme28 »

pjmlp wrote: post #140

The consumer protection laws are so bad the other side of Atlantic. Most European countries, have their own version of consumer protection agencies, usually any kind of complaint gets sorted out, even if takes a couple months. If they fail for whatever reason, there is still the top European one. Most of the time I read about FTC, it appears to side with the wrong guys.

Absolutely. I don't know if it's the FTC or FCC, but the moment I swap back to my American SIM card on trips to the US, I start getting spam texts that I cannot get rid of. Meanwhile I get absolutely zero of these with my European number.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#202

Post by kkosser »

mrtksn wrote: post #193
pjmlp wrote: post #140

The consumer protection laws are so bad the other side of Atlantic. Most European countries, have their own version of consumer protection agencies, usually any kind of complaint gets sorted out, even if takes a couple months. If they fail for whatever reason, there is still the top European one. Most of the time I read about FTC, it appears to side with the wrong guys.

True but generally speaking American companies usually have much better customer service and better refund policies than European ones. The issues usually stem when a company corners the market or has no viable alternatives. So maybe the American way of doing things can also work if a healthy competitive environment is preserved. The problem lately is that American companies have become monopolies and the formula fir…

[flagged]

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#204

Post by dinfinity »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #192
ptero wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I would welcome the world without American domination. Or without any single country domination for that matter. Competition of systems is good for the world. It doesn't need to turn the US into some grubby mafia state. It could, but I think it is unlikely. But the road for both the US and the world IMO goes down before it goes up as many systems and alliances around the world that depend on US domina…

If it’s not America it will be China and I don’t think you want to live in that world.

Depends on how far down the US is going to slide. It's sadly well underway to become much, much worse than China is (or will become).

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#205

Post by braiamp »

jdlshore wrote: post #194
braiamp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it takes more than 24 hours to put a 1 click cancel button is alien to me.

You must not work on these sorts of systems. It can easily take more than 24 hours. In case you’re genuinely interested in learning more, here’s how it works. There are good reasons for it working this way, BTW. The needs of a company with hundreds or thousands of people are different than the needs of hobbyists and early-stage startups. 1. A user experience designer analyzes the user flow and decides where to put th…

How many companies of "size" you know of? Because that process looks HORRIBLY inefficient and only primed to extract as much money of the consumer. You just need to put it in the account screen. A big red button. Your _workflow_ is there to make excuses. If the move was the other way, you would gladly pay the cost, but because it actually hurts your "business model" then it is suddenly a problem. No buddy, I call BS on all that, and call BS on the law itself.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#206

Post by Arubis »

scrubs wrote: post #152
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neoliberal deregulation and regulatory capture, not necessarily in that order, has basically killed federal consumer protection in the US.

And it can get worse. Over shooting right (left) invariably leads to overshoot left (right) which we absolutely do not need either. The American sense (when we get off our butts and do it) is common sense, slowly changing law that always apportions control in equal parts to accountability. It's the last part that is more galling (because increasingly we've failed) and ultimately will be the more decisive in any futur…

When we “overshot left” it was by electing a centrist cishet man who identified as Christian and had different colored skin from the prior presidents.

Overshooting right has us building concentration camps.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#207

Post by mokash »

mrtksn wrote: post #193
pjmlp wrote: post #140

The consumer protection laws are so bad the other side of Atlantic. Most European countries, have their own version of consumer protection agencies, usually any kind of complaint gets sorted out, even if takes a couple months. If they fail for whatever reason, there is still the top European one. Most of the time I read about FTC, it appears to side with the wrong guys.

True but generally speaking American companies usually have much better customer service and better refund policies than European ones. The issues usually stem when a company corners the market or has no viable alternatives. So maybe the American way of doing things can also work if a healthy competitive environment is preserved. The problem lately is that American companies have become monopolies and the formula fir…

>True but generally speaking American companies usually have much better customer service and better refund policies than European ones. The issues usually stem when a company corners the market or has no viable alternatives.

this does not track with my experience

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#208

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

DaSHacka wrote: post #200
sneak wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US wasn’t the dominant superpower due to cooperation or agreement or leadership, it was the result of pure technological force. Oppenheimer, Teller, and countless nameless others at NASA and Lockheed and Boeing and DARPA. The US built the best weapons, spy planes, launch vehicles, satellites, and communications systems, and was willing to take a no-holds-barred approach to geopolitical strategy. This led to a cir…

> It may be that we never see a monolithic superpower of the same kind again for generations. The post ww2 world order was really very very kind to the USA. And why do you think it couldn't remain that way? Considering SpaceX, OpenAI, and Google were made far, far closer to today than to WWII, why would the assumption be that the output suddenly stops?

well in the past year, we have stopped funding science in the US, arrested and deported thousands of foreign students here legally, removing the pipeline for the smartest people in the world to move to the US and start world changing companies, and started a trade war with the entire world, making American businesses much less competitive at buying/selling goods internationally.

to consider your examples specifically, Musk and Brin were both immigrants to the US, and musk specifically did exactly the type of visa shenanigans that now is landing people in El Salvador

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#209

Post by mrtksn »

mokash wrote: post #207
mrtksn wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but generally speaking American companies usually have much better customer service and better refund policies than European ones. The issues usually stem when a company corners the market or has no viable alternatives. So maybe the American way of doing things can also work if a healthy competitive environment is preserved. The problem lately is that American companies have become monopolies and the formula fir…

>True but generally speaking American companies usually have much better customer service and better refund policies than European ones. The issues usually stem when a company corners the market or has no viable alternatives. this does not track with my experience

Any examples of American company having worse customer experience than European ones?

I will give you 2 for the opposite: Amazon and Apple do no question asked refunds all the time. Much higher bar than European regulators require.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#210

Post by voxic11 »

guelo wrote: post #173
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The FTC is required to conduct a preliminary regulatory analysis when a rule has an estimated annual economic effect of $100 million or more. The FTC estimated in a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that the rule would not have a $100 million effect. > But an administrative law judge later found that the rule's impact surpassed the threshold, observing that compliance costs would exceed $100 million "unless each…

Why are you pasting the article when it doesn't include any warnings that were given to the ftc at the time?

It literally says they were warned by the administrative judge that a preliminary regulatory analysis was required to make such a rule.

> Despite the administrative law judge's finding, the FTC did not conduct a preliminary regulatory analysis and instead "proceeded to issue only the final regulatory analysis alongside the final Rule,"

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