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Introduction to Indian English

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Re: Introduction to Indian English

#31

This does not talk about the numbering system. See [1] "Lakh" => 100K "Crore" => 100Lakhs [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English#Numbering_syste...

As an Indian who moved abroad and comes back occasionally this is the hardest part. As an Indian I always think in multiples of 10: 100,1000,10000, 1 lakh etc, but abroad after a certain point people think in multiples of 1000. 1000, million, then multiples of 10..The Indian system to me is more logically consistent

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#32
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying this as someone whose first language is Hindi, I have never used this word nor heard anyone else use it. I think whatever similarities there are might be coincidental. Can't say about other Indian languages.

It comes from Sanskrit[1] and is fairly common in languages which use Sanskrit derived terms in large numbers eg some dialects of Bengali, but more importantly “sarkari” (government) Hindi which is way more Sanskitized vs regular Hindi. Regular Hindi even in the Gangetic plains is way more “hybrid”, and this is way before you come to eg Mumbai Hindi. Here’s the term in gov.in: https://www.google.com/search?q=%E0%A4%9…

> But there’s evidence that “do the needful” might be an old English legal term as well. I’ve updated the parent comment. Further research is definitely required.

Huh. Using Google Books I found "do the needful" as far back as the 17th century. The 17th century hit and 19th century hits were almost all in the context of Mercantile Law, but the several 18th century hits weren't in a legal context, though perhaps the authors were importing legal terminology.

The Mercantile Law usage makes me wonder if the phrase nonetheless found its origin in India, given the centuries-long commercial and legal ties between Britain and India. OTOH, it's a rather natural turn of phrase in English. I'm surprised it isn't more common, though our (American) modern, over-sexed, adolescent culture gives rise to distracting connotations.

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#33
post #29
post #10

Not exactly Indian English, but my favourite English word with an Indian origin is Juggernaut. Its a morphed version of the name of an Indian deity – Jagannath. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut : > A juggernaut, in current English usage, is a literal or metaphorical force regarded as merciless, destructive, and unstoppable. > This English usage originates in the mid-nineteenth century. Juggernaut is the…

Thats a good one. Also as an Indian I didn't know Anaconda, Pariah, Mango, Mulligatawny, etc originated from Indian languages

Chintzy for rather twee flowery patterns.

The British Army uses a bazillion Indian words.

Khaki for pale tan. I think it means dust in Urdu?

Basha for your shelter of a tarpaulin usually suspended from a bush by...

Bungees - stretchy rubber ropes with hooks at the end.

Pukka - proper, the real deal. (Although nowadays good kit is referred to as Gucci)

Dumdums - bullets cut at the tip so they break up on impact. Named after the arms factory at Dumdum.

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#34
post #10

Not exactly Indian English, but my favourite English word with an Indian origin is Juggernaut. Its a morphed version of the name of an Indian deity – Jagannath. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut : > A juggernaut, in current English usage, is a literal or metaphorical force regarded as merciless, destructive, and unstoppable. > This English usage originates in the mid-nineteenth century. Juggernaut is the…

I have wondered if there are people in India who fit a description of certain europeans, in that they are said to speak 9 languages, none of them fluently. My father came from India originaly, but is of the type who is concerned with correctness in all things, but speaks fondly of the fun and games of multi lingual word play, and harder to master languages such as punjabi, and classical persian. I think that India is so multi lingual and large to begin with that there will be regional differences in the use of other languages...portugese, spanish, english, and many others and the concept of "indian english" is realy an intro into a much much vaster world of crosscultural exchange and cominication ongoing for millenia. edit: spelling, always spelling

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#35
post #31

This does not talk about the numbering system. See [1] "Lakh" => 100K "Crore" => 100Lakhs [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English#Numbering_syste...

As an Indian who moved abroad and comes back occasionally this is the hardest part. As an Indian I always think in multiples of 10: 100,1000,10000, 1 lakh etc, but abroad after a certain point people think in multiples of 1000. 1000, million, then multiples of 10..The Indian system to me is more logically consistent

My wife is chinese and they have a very commonly used word for 10,000 so when she needs to say either 10,000 or 100,000 she almost always gets it wrong and says 1,000 instead of 10,000 and says 10,000 instead of 100,000. It's happened so often I mentally translate automatically if it's clear from context.

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#36
I wonder if anyone has some insight...

a bit of a sensitive question, but I've noticed my indian colleagues (PhDs) have a much more limited vocabulary compared to American colleagues. To the point where slightly archaic word or literary words are completely unusable in conversation.

I have to consciously "talk simple"

However, as I understand, higher education is all conducted in English... so it feels like there shouldn't be as large of a gap as there is?

Is English language literature not widely read in school? Are people mostly reading in their local languages?

It's a bit similar to English in Malaysia/Singapore - but there I assume schooling is done in large part in Chinese/Malay and maybe people don't read as much in English

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#37
post #18

I think the most confusing one is the usage of "I'll revert back" to mean "I'll get back to you". At least once in my life, I've seen an actual confusion caused by this. Here's how it went: Let's call the two people involved Bob and Raj. Bob was working in the US and Raj was based in India. Bob emailed the team, addressing Raj, and said one of the attachments in a service needed to be deleted (I don't even remember w…

That is a common usage in British English as well. E.g “I will update the draft document and revert back to you”.

One of the most annoying things about Duolingo is that they haven’t spared a week of an intern’s time to come up with a way of substituting the British/Indian/Irish/Austrailian/New Zealand/South African… word for the American English word. OK there’s a lot of slang out there and you could really go down a rabbit hole but when the usage is well documented in e.g. Collins-Robert there’s no excuse really.

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#38
post #12

In my experience, at least some aspects of the Indian English exists because we Indians often mentally translate what we want to say from our native language (which are plentiful) to English before it comes out of our mouth. I don't imagine this is a uniquely Indian phenomenon – other non-native English speakers would be doing the same.

In my native Cantonese (and this probably applies to a lesser extent to Mandarin as well), pronouns are inherently non-gendered, and when we speak in English we tend to randomly pick one (he/she) and thus occasionally get the gender wrong.

That said I think there are "levels" to so called "mental translation" -- I don't think I consciously mentally translate anything at all, but I guess sometimes the neural pathways or whatever are kinda repurposed/re-used even if there are some differences between languages.

Re: Introduction to Indian English

#39
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Irish people whose main language since birth is English do this. There's a verb in Gaeilge which does exist in English but is translated as "does be". Examples: - He does be eating his breakfast - She does be out walking the dog It's the continuous/habitual form of to be, so the implication is that she does be walking the dog everyday, or regularly. He does be eating his breakfast everyday. The interesting thing…

It really do be like that sometimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitual_be#Hypothesized_sourc...

yes, the aave usage does potentially be having its origins in he

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