Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 599 posts

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#91

Post by codemac »

bushbaba wrote: post #89
postalrat wrote: post #47

I should be able to go into my bank or card service online. View a list of all my subscriptions. Click on a subscription (or select all). And cancel. If there is a card that offers this let me know because I'll be switching immediately.

Yes there is https://www.privacy.com/ which gives you a unique virtual credit card per subscription, which you can cancel from the bank.

Nowadays a problem is the subscriptions are all multiplexed through apple, google, and amazon.

I used to religiously use things like ynab, but now I need to find ways to export my amazon transactions, google play, etc. It's nearly impossible, and it makes me feel completely out of control.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#92

Post by anonzzzies »

babyshake wrote: post #66
postalrat wrote: post #47

I should be able to go into my bank or card service online. View a list of all my subscriptions. Click on a subscription (or select all). And cancel. If there is a card that offers this let me know because I'll be switching immediately.

You can use privacy.com as another commenter has written. But one catch is I believe you can be on the hook for subscriptions where your card no longer works but you haven't cancelled your subscription. So they can send you invoices and even send it to collections. Although I strongly feel that at least for transactions of a sufficiently small size (normal retail subscriptions) cancelling your card should be legally…

I always try via official means, but, failing that, I just cancel the (virtual) card. I have been threatened a lot that if I do that, my first born will be punished etc but of course nothing ever happens. I don't live in the US though.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#93

Post by politelemon »

Towaway69 wrote: post #48
MengerSponge wrote: post #37

My favorite underappreciated aspect of the iOS app store is its absolutely friction-free cancellation. It makes me much more willing to trial a subscription service because I know I won't have to spend an hour of my life on the phone with a lovely Filipino man to stop that service.

This. My iPhone is still a pleasure to use, everyday. But perhaps I can only appreciate this because I was an android user for years. The killer app for me on iPhone? Files. I literally switched from iPhone 3 to android because it didn’t have a file manager! Thankfully I came back.

It was the opposite journey for me. I never felt for once that it was my iPhone, perhaps because I was an android user for years.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#94

Post by eviks »

db48x wrote: post #60
collingreen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta pay all those data scientists and lawyers the big bucks in order to figure out how to checks notes stop actively preventing customers from canceling your service when they want to. I'm happy to consult on this with all those poor businesses for under $100,000,000 in order to help the court vibes feel like the cost isn't over the limit. I feel confident I can affordably write a few whitepapers and design guideli…

With 106,000 companies doing this, that’s less than $1,000 each. Do you think that _your_ company could review all of its marketing materials for compliance with a new FTC rule for less than that? How much would you as a consultant charge one of those companies for your assistance? But if you don’t like the rule, talk to your local Congresscritter and ask them to propose a bill to amend or remove it. Complaining abou…

> Complaining about it in snarky internet comments isn’t going to get you anywhere.

In what fantasy land is the following any different?

> talk to your local Congresscritter and ask them to propose a bill to amend or remove it

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#95

Post by skort »

bpodgursky wrote: post #15

From a different article [1]: > But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit said the FTC erred in its rulemaking process by failing to produce a preliminary regulatory analysis, a statutory requirement for rules whose annual effect on the national economy would exceed $100 million. > The FTC had argued that it was not required to prepare the preliminary analysis because its initial estimate of the rule’s imp…

It's interesting that businesses can build an obviously toxic subscription model that robs consumers of both money and time, but when asked to change it now we have to consider their costs.

I understand the idea behind the threshold for changing rules but this still feels very broken. There is a constant struggle of having to do everything perfectly to make any positive progress, but bad actors can operate however they like with seemingly little repercussions.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#96

Post by eviks »

db48x wrote: post #76
glaucon wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the analysis. Gotta laugh at the threshold being USD100M costs to the affected businesses without the law taking into account how much the annual costs to consumers are, assuming the continuation of the practices.

Why is that laughable? Congress decided that all rules changes need additional scrutiny if they impose large costs. After all, those costs are eventually going to be passed down to consumers so making overly–complicated rules just ends up hurting consumers. And there has to be _some_ threshold number; they couldn’t just leave that one undefined or nobody would ever bother with the extra steps.

> After all, those costs are eventually going to be passed down to consumers

No they aren't. The ease with which you can continue to charge consumers without providing value to them directly affects the total amount of those charges (also, profits is a variable)

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#97

Post by arwhatever »

xyst wrote: post #40

The USA is not a country for the people. It’s a country for the rich and powerful. The game is rigged and enough deluded people think they can "game" it as well.

Our culture is an unfortunate nexus between strong contract enforcement and weak consumer protections.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#99

Post by arielcostas »

MengerSponge wrote: post #37

My favorite underappreciated aspect of the iOS app store is its absolutely friction-free cancellation. It makes me much more willing to trial a subscription service because I know I won't have to spend an hour of my life on the phone with a lovely Filipino man to stop that service.

Google Play also has that if you subscribe through there (which might be more expensive because of the fee Google takes), plus an easier refund system if you subscribe to something and decide it's not worth paying it

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#100

Post by tjpnz »

xyst wrote: post #40

The USA is not a country for the people. It’s a country for the rich and powerful. The game is rigged and enough deluded people think they can "game" it as well.

Sure it is. Corporations are people too and laws like these take away their freedoms!
Post reply on HN