Google can now read your WhatsApp messages • Hacker News Board

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#211

Post by michaelmrose » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:50 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #202

Barbing wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminiscent of their heavy handed approach to disabling watch history on YouTube, even when paying for YouTube Premium. (Google punishes viewers who make themselves less valuable to advertisers by giving them an entirely blank homepage.)

Wouldn't a blank homepage be exactly what you expect if you had no tracking enabled? The algorithm that generates the homepage is probably totally stunted with only empty logs to draw on.

You could make a list of demographic fitted choices based on info on the user.

One wonders if you couldn't whip up something that would whip up a list of choices by operating locally only on the users history returning just a list of things to show on the page and forgetting it when the user closed the tab.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#212

Post by potatoproduct » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:53 PM UTC

sheepscreek wrote: post #195

Hizonner wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Google would find it to be convenient for the line to be blurry doesn't mean that anybody looking at it in good faith sees the line as blurry.

Google is an advertising company. Apple is a consumer hardware company. Who would you trust more with your data? It’s that simple (irrespective of the ground truth, simply referring to the optics of it).

Apple is an advertising company.

https://ads.apple.com/

Generates billions for Apple and is growing rapidly, since they implemented increasingly aggressive "privacy features" to block their competitors.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#213

Post by baobun » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:54 PM UTC

blablabla123 wrote: post #192

surgical_fire wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is positioning Gemini not just as an app, but as a OS level feature Eeewww. We need a mobile OS competitor. I am seriously considering a move to Fairphone with /e/os. GrapheneOS would be a possibility, but I don't trust Google to make decent hardware, so not super excited to get a Pixel phone.

I definitely had to tweak the settings a lot for the battery to not get warm on my Pixel. But after a week I managed and battery life is better than with comparable phones since the background bloat isn't there on Graphene. So far there was a solution for everything, I don't do online banking on the phone though. I wonder if LineageOS might solve this problem already though, /e/os probably would as well

> I definitely had to tweak the settings a lot for the battery to not get warm on my Pixel. But after a week I managed and battery life is better than with comparable phones since the background bloat isn't there on Graphene.

I am sure a detailed writeup will be very appreciated if you bother and manage.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#214

Post by dasil003 » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:55 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #205

sheepscreek wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is an advertising company. Apple is a consumer hardware company. Who would you trust more with your data? It’s that simple (irrespective of the ground truth, simply referring to the optics of it).

Google sells hardware and Apple sells ads, in great quantity in both cases. Not sure "it's that simple" at all.

What percentage of revenue do ads and hardware contribute to the bottom line in Apple and Google? That answer will tell you more about leadership incentives than just hand-waving away the discussion based on the fact that big tech companies tend to dip their toes in a lot of pools.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#215

Post by IAmBroom » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:55 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #190

Workaccount2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people collectively vote for the ad model over the subscription model.

It's totally possible to have the ad model without all the spying. It's just that marketers don't want that to be an option. They're all in on spying on us.

Yes, it's possible for marketers to act contrary to their own interests. Is that really your point?

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#216

Post by fsflover » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:58 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #214

ajross wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google sells hardware and Apple sells ads, in great quantity in both cases. Not sure "it's that simple" at all.

What percentage of revenue do ads and hardware contribute to the bottom line in Apple and Google? That answer will tell you more about leadership incentives than just hand-waving away the discussion based on the fact that big tech companies tend to dip their toes in a lot of pools.

It's expanding, which is all that matters: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/11/19/apple-now-directly-sell...

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#217

Post by pc86 » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 8:00 PM UTC

Hizonner wrote: post #97

kccqzy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line is blurry. Google is positioning Gemini not just as an app, but as a OS level feature. The OS can by definition reach into any third-app app to do anything it wants. I'll give some more examples of OS-level features in case it's not clear: copy/paste is an OS-level feature and it is designed to extract arbitrary text or content from third party apps (copy) and insert them into third party apps (paste); scree…

The fact that Google would find it to be convenient for the line to be blurry doesn't mean that anybody looking at it in good faith sees the line as blurry.

The fact that someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're operating in bad faith.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#218

Post by rurp » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 8:00 PM UTC

hbn wrote: post #73

People have been clowning on Apple for being behind on the AI stuff and -- while I'd never defend how they promised a bunch of features in 2024, showed them in ads, and sold iPhones based on vaporware, but still haven't shipped most of the features -- I will say, I imagine a lot of the hold-up is because they realized how dangerous it is to start trusting AI with the sensitive data on your phone. It's probably not to…

If true, that's pathetic on Apple's part. The unreliability of LLMs was maybe the biggest topic in the entire tech industry around that time. To be ignorant of that basic fact would be an incredibly bad look.

I have no insider knowledge but to me on the outside it looks like the same old panicky hype-chasing we've all seen in other contexts. Some executives kept reading and hearing about AI AI AI!, and were terrified of being left behind. The many voices of reason within the company pointing out the correct risks and tradeoffs to consider were ignored while the over-confident voices blustered their way onto the roadmap.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#219

Post by fsflover » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 8:00 PM UTC

surgical_fire wrote: post #171

kccqzy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line is blurry. Google is positioning Gemini not just as an app, but as a OS level feature. The OS can by definition reach into any third-app app to do anything it wants. I'll give some more examples of OS-level features in case it's not clear: copy/paste is an OS-level feature and it is designed to extract arbitrary text or content from third party apps (copy) and insert them into third party apps (paste); scree…

> Google is positioning Gemini not just as an app, but as a OS level feature Eeewww. We need a mobile OS competitor. I am seriously considering a move to Fairphone with /e/os. GrapheneOS would be a possibility, but I don't trust Google to make decent hardware, so not super excited to get a Pixel phone.

> We need a mobile OS competitor.

Mobian, PureOS, postmarketOS exist.

Re: Google can now read your WhatsApp messages

#220

Post by Macha » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 8:04 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #211

Workaccount2 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a blank homepage be exactly what you expect if you had no tracking enabled? The algorithm that generates the homepage is probably totally stunted with only empty logs to draw on.

You could make a list of demographic fitted choices based on info on the user. One wonders if you couldn't whip up something that would whip up a list of choices by operating locally only on the users history returning just a list of things to show on the page and forgetting it when the user closed the tab.

Honestly having occasionally glimpsed the logged out YouTube page which appears to do this... I'm glad that I don't have to deal with that either.

As for what they should do, I think populating the homepage from the subscriptions list (either literally as an ordered list or by some algorithmic "watch time vs average watch time for this creator", I don't care) would be preferable.