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Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

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Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find it strange that people like different things than you do?

No, I find it strange that people like to input text into an editor so much that LLMs make them sad.

It is never just inputing text into an editor. When I write a piece of code, it is just the first draft of what I have in mind. Most of the time I change the code interactively until I'm satisfied. The act of writing the code myself helps in clarifying my ideas.

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#52

Have you considered not doing that? It's not obligatory to have an LLM shit out unreviewed code for you, you're making a choice to do that, and you can make a choice not to. Review the code. Hell, maybe even write some code yourself. What you're describing is how I feel whenever I use an LLM for anything more than the most basic of tasks. I've gone from being a senior level software developer to managing a barely com…

I think you're on to something: It sounds like the developer needs to be more hands-on in making changes; as opposed to treating the AI like a subordinate with autonomy.

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For example: About two years ago I worked with a contractor who was a lot more junior than our team needed. I'd give him instructions, and then the next day spend about 2-3 hours fixing his code. In total, I was spending half of my time handholding the contractor through their project.

The problem was that I had my own assignments; and the contractor was supposed to be able to do their job with minimal oversight. (IE, roughly 0.5-1.5 hours of my day.)

If the contractor was helping me with my assignment; IE, if the contractor was my assistant, I'd have loved the arrangement.

(In case you're wondering how it ended up for the contractor, we let him go and hired someone who worked out great.)

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I suspect if the OP can figure out how to make the AI an assistant, instead of an employee with autonomy, then it will be a better arrangement. I personally haven't found an AI that does that for me, but I suspect I'm either using it incorrectly or using the wrong tools.

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I find it strange that people like to input text into an editor so much that LLMs make them sad.

It is never just inputing text into an editor. When I write a piece of code, it is just the first draft of what I have in mind. Most of the time I change the code interactively until I'm satisfied. The act of writing the code myself helps in clarifying my ideas.

Are you saying that that is no longer fun with LLMs?

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#54
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because capitalism

How is capitalism causing this?

Why should labor care about the quality of their work when management also does not because it's hard at the prospect of the largest displacement of labor in history?

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#55

Is AI genuinely that good for you all? I can't leave it to its own devices, I have to review everything because (from experience) I don't trust it. I think it's an amazing technological advancement, perhaps will go down as one of the top 10 in the history of our species. But I can't just "fire and forget". And that's not just because its output is often not the best, but also because by doing it myself it causes me t…

I think it depends on your niche and model. Gemini pro worked amazing for me in when doing (relatively simple) graph algorithms in python, but completely sucked when I switched to (relatively complicated) latex layouts.

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#56
You're more or less describing what happened to me when I changed from dev to dev team lead. I couldn't affort the time anymore to make code reviews, left that to my colleagues and only tested the resulting software. When it didn't work, I returned a bug task and then we iterated this until it worked.

No more joy in writing software. Instead my time is spend in writing user stories and specifications as good as possible.

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#57

Is AI genuinely that good for you all? I can't leave it to its own devices, I have to review everything because (from experience) I don't trust it. I think it's an amazing technological advancement, perhaps will go down as one of the top 10 in the history of our species. But I can't just "fire and forget". And that's not just because its output is often not the best, but also because by doing it myself it causes me t…

> it makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong

I'm in the same boat: I'm mostly doing C# in Visual Studio (classic) with co-pilot, and it very rarely gives useful code from prompts. Often times the auto-suggestions are hallucinations, and frequently they interfere with "normal" tab completion.

I'm wondering if I'm using the wrong tool, or if Visual Studio (classic) co-pilot is just far behind industry norms?

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#58
I'm definitely on the opposite side where despite being in the nascent era of code assisting agents, they've become a productivity multiplier and I shudder thinking about how productive my last 25 years of programming could've been if we had coding agents back when I started my career. Young aspirational developers graduating now are going to be able to accomplish much more than us over their entire career.

It's also got me to explore a lot more domains than I would've considered otherwise, e.g. using Python to accomplish tasks with local pytorch/onnx models and creating ComfyUI nodes or using bash for large complex scripts that I would've previously used bun .ts shell scripts to implement.

Even non dev tasks like resolving Linux update/configuration/conflicts have become a breeze to resolve with Claude/Gemini Pro being able to put me on the right track which no amount of old-school Google searches were able to.

Although it's not all upside as LLMs typically generate a lot more code than I would've used to accomplish the same task so code maintenance is likely to require more effort, so I don't like using LLMs to change code I've written, but am more than happy to get them to make changes to code that other LLMs have created.

Re: Tell HN: I Lost Joy of Programming

#60
Reread this: https://paulgraham.com/hp.html

Long story short, LLMs are great for people who never wanted to become "code artists" (aka hackers) which many people within CS and SWE do not wish to be.

If you goal is to be able to express your ideas fluently though, you'll have to get good at coding. The differentiator is how you look at the pain and struggle involved. If your goal is to improve yourself, the struggle has value. You learn by trying to do harder and harder things. If your goal isn't to learn though, you may as well outsource the struggling to a bot.

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