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The Money/Time fallacy

thoughts.maayank.com

11–20 of 42 posts

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#11
Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does.

What about the intangibles that Don Draper might get by working on his car? What is the value of joy? What is the value a Zen experience? Of reconfirming once in a while that you can go beyond being a highly specialized cog in a machine fueled and greased by money? Or developing a bond with the thing that you spend much of your life in and tirelessly shuttles you around (Ever read Ursula K. LeGuin's Left Hand of Darkness?).

And Rory: There's a reason she was inspired with the idea, maybe something emanating from her soul. Also she eats there frequently... the place is part of her community, her village. Part of the problem with our world today is that we treat everything as business.

Sigh.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#12
Your Money/Time principal has long been defined. It’s called Opportunity Cost. You have experienced this principal your entire life. In many cases, especially as we earn more, this principal tends to involve money. However, it’s really about value and the decisions we have to make in life.

As far as how you express it, your conclusions are a bit off. The method by which you earn money (hourly, salary(taxable or not)) has no bearing on the value traded. Additionally, both time and money are finite, therefore a tradeoff must occur. This is true no matter your ability to work more or you’re a billionaire. In your approach to this idea, you’re assuming some kind of concrete, always balanced, equation. While this is more true(and easier to see as balanced) when opportunity cost is applied in business (outsourced factory can make widget X in bulk cheaper), this is almost always false in life situations like you describe. There are just too many variables. Skill, willingness, enjoyment, or necessity as just a few of the intangibles that factor into the decision.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#13

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does. What about the intangibles that Don Draper might get by working on his car? What is the value of joy? What is the value a Zen experience? Of reconfirming once in a while that you can go beyond being a highly specialized cog in a machine fueled and greased by money? Or developing a b…

Well said. I personally get a great deal of satisfaction tinkering with my car (or brewing my own beer) even though if I could put those hours to productive use I could earn more money than it would cost to pay for the repairs (or beer).

Everybody needs a hobby.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get exciting things for money (travelling for example is not always trivial financially). More to the point, both point of views have utility. I criticize "my time has a numerical value" in the post, but it is useful to have some metric in order to get your fair market value (i.e. in negotiations) or when you are in a period where all you want is to gain monetary freedom. In my original draft I had the mentio…

It is useful to have a metric of how other humans value your time and ability, true. And storing enough resources so you don't have to go without essentials is just good planning. But it seems nonsensical to base your entire self-valuation as a human on that arbitrary number. "Monetary freedom" makes limited sense to me - free from what? Free from having to be productive (to other humans in society) in order to get f…

Free from doing work you'd rather not do.

Free to take time off for travel or family when you want, rather than wait for set vacation days.

And so on. Most people have some things they'd rather be free from, if they had more money.

If you already have total monetary freedom, count yourself lucky.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#15

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does. What about the intangibles that Don Draper might get by working on his car? What is the value of joy? What is the value a Zen experience? Of reconfirming once in a while that you can go beyond being a highly specialized cog in a machine fueled and greased by money? Or developing a b…

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does.

This assumes he holds that exact idea to which he replies in the article and that he holds it true to all things in life.

At some point you do need to face outsourcing a chore or doing it yourself. I for example see no learning/entrainment value out of cleaning my apartment for the millionth time or to battle with transporting heavy & bulky furniture. As said in the last paragraph, if you prefer to make a non-monetary decision then sure, do it, just be conscious about it and don't blindly follow a false (or a very nuanced) principle.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#16

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does. What about the intangibles that Don Draper might get by working on his car? What is the value of joy? What is the value a Zen experience? Of reconfirming once in a while that you can go beyond being a highly specialized cog in a machine fueled and greased by money? Or developing a b…

Thanks for saying what I wanted to say, better than I did. :)

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#17

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does. What about the intangibles that Don Draper might get by working on his car? What is the value of joy? What is the value a Zen experience? Of reconfirming once in a while that you can go beyond being a highly specialized cog in a machine fueled and greased by money? Or developing a b…

I agree that the non-monetary aspects were missing from the article. However, the point of the article that, even if you purely look at the monetary value, most people get it wrong by overestimating the value of their time. This, along with the other benefits you mention, all lead to the conclusion that we should be doing more for ourselves rather than outsourcing. That being said, does anyone actually fall into is "fallacy"? There have been a few articles lately (at peast this and the "worst argument in the world" one yesterday) that seem to assume the reader has no grasp on logic. (paraphrasing: did you see the mistake these fictional characters made? If not, don't worry little person, I'm sometimes dumb too...). This comes off as a bit self-righteous.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#18
I agree 100% and would even expand the idea a little further.

Let's say I make $100/hr at my job.

My car breaks down, and it's only $80/hr for a mechanic to fix it. Seems smart. Now my deck needs repainting, and it's $30/hr for someone else to paint it. Gardening? $20/hr. Washing machine broken? $50/hr. Daycare? $30/hr. Housecleaning? $30/hr... etc. etc. etc.

Because I'm a Software Engineer, pretty much every service in the entire world costs less per hour than I make, so following the logic, I should be paying someone else to do everything in my life for me. I should get someone to cook for me, drive me to work, and brush my teeth.

All of this assumes I can go to paid work an ever-increasing amount, which is obviously not true. The amount of hours I can work in a week is fixed.

UPDATE: Something else the article doesn't mention is that not only is the actual cash-in-hand dollar amount less due to tax, you should also consider the expenses required to earn that money. Transport, work clothes, work lunch, daycare and even rent/mortgage# must be paid simply to go to work. And those expenses come off after tax dollars. The amount you get in your pocket at the end of it all is a lot, lot less than your hourly rate.

#I say rent/mortgage because if you didn't have to go to work, you could live in a tiny little town somewhere paying a fraction of the rent/mortgage you are now.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#19
post #5

I refuse to peg every remaining second of my existence to the highest hourly rate someone else will pay me for it. I won't say "My time is valued at $XX per hour, so it makes sense to pay $XX for someone else to do this." Valuing all time at an hourly rate is logical if a human is trying to maximize the amount of money made across their life - since you could theoretically pay for this task to be done while working,…

You can get exciting things for money (travelling for example is not always trivial financially). More to the point, both point of views have utility. I criticize "my time has a numerical value" in the post, but it is useful to have some metric in order to get your fair market value (i.e. in negotiations) or when you are in a period where all you want is to gain monetary freedom. In my original draft I had the mentio…

Sure, I get that it is useful to realize that spending 3 hours researching a better deal to save $20 is a poor use of time. But your examples were not at all like that, and you focused on things like factoring in tax consequences, which presumes what I consider a fallacy, that one can calculate opportunity cost to that degree of accuracy for something like life.

When the iPhone App Store had just launched years ago, I saw that all of the tip calculators focused on exact calculations, even making a point of excluding the state tax from the tip. At least one went so far as to incorporate a state tax rate database! My idea was to write a tip calculator app that put things in perspective, that rounded and swagged, with the intention of making tipping and payment easy while influencing people's perspective and generosity (e.g. Just put down a $20 bill rather than $19.42 or if you're paying CC, tip $4 in cash rather than $3.91 on your card). Then I realized that by having people use a tip calculator I was undermining my own message! Anyone who is uncomfortable with "Just take the bill, divide by 10, then double, and round. If you aren't poor, be generous" just doesn't get it.

What is the cost of living an anal, money-focused life? See my other comments.

Re: The Money/Time fallacy

#20
post #15

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does. What about the intangibles that Don Draper might get by working on his car? What is the value of joy? What is the value a Zen experience? Of reconfirming once in a while that you can go beyond being a highly specialized cog in a machine fueled and greased by money? Or developing a b…

Sadly this article about the value of your life is written by an accountant, or at least someone who sees things as a bean-counter does. This assumes he holds that exact idea to which he replies in the article and that he holds it true to all things in life. At some point you do need to face outsourcing a chore or doing it yourself. I for example see no learning/entrainment value out of cleaning my apartment for the…

[Are you pretending that you are not the author?]

But that's not what your article was about! You weren't pushing a rough awareness of opportunity cost, you were saying that it's a "fallacy" because in most cases you can't calculate it down to the penny. See my other comments.

I for example see no learning/entrainment value out of cleaning my apartment

What about the value of a less stratified society? Ever see Metropolis or read Brave New World? Ever live in a country like Brazil or India where the moneyed have servants to do everything from cooking, driving (few in India drive their own car!), and even raising their children? Yes, I want those people to have jobs, but no, I don't want to live in a world like that, or anything like Metropolis. And I don't want to be so elite and spoiled that cleaning my fucking toilet is beneath me.

I make well into 6 figures, though I just quit that job and will likely make much much less to contribute something better to this world than I have been, something better than what pure and cold capitalism has been telling me is valuable.

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