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Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

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Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#161

Post by numpad0 »

summm wrote: post #105
sardine5 wrote: post #68

A bit different, as it's mainly for voice - but I made an app 'Murmur : Bluetooth Group Calls' - that lets you hold group voice calls and message via a mesh of Bluetooth LE connections. It's available on Android and iOS. https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/murmur-bluetooth-group-calls/i... Doesn't really get any downloads, so not sure there's much demand for this - but I use it with some shokz bone conducting headphones fo…

Unfortunately you have generated a name collision: the server component of the Mumble VoIP is also called "Murmur", for a long time: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumble_(software)

Yeah, I think that fully explain apparent disinterest of users. No way nobody is looking for this app, but there is also no way this one shows up on searches over the other one.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#163

Post by kosolam »

iSnow wrote: post #145
moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

I like the idea, I just don't know how to implement a robust micropayment system that does not require a lot of messages back and forth for a transaction. Given the intended use-case, that would not work.

I can design such a system in a couple of minutes. As the adjacent commenter said it can be done with a blockchain, using smart contacts. 1. Sender deposits fee 2. Message includes unlocking code that itself only can be unlocked by the recipient 3. Message getting wrapped with details of forwarders while it moves between peers 4. Recipient unlocks the message via the smart contract thereby releasing the micropayments to the forwarders

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#165

Post by t43562 »

yetihehe wrote: post #107
moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

Who would you pay for sending messages? That's your centralization point. Alternatively if you allow "starting balance", how would you prevent from making a lot of accounts for spam sending?

You could have a way to earn credits which would allow your own messages to get sent. i.e. it wouldn't be about money.

Ontop of that, I think payment isn't critical. You join the mesh because you want to use it yourself - all you need then is to limit how much power you're prepared to spend on it. What does it matter to you if 100 people use your phone or none? ....other than power.

To put it another way, I think money would introduce a commercial motive which would end up gobbling up the system like bitcoin mining.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#166

Post by sardine5 »

cpeth wrote: post #135
sardine5 wrote: post #68

A bit different, as it's mainly for voice - but I made an app 'Murmur : Bluetooth Group Calls' - that lets you hold group voice calls and message via a mesh of Bluetooth LE connections. It's available on Android and iOS. https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/murmur-bluetooth-group-calls/i... Doesn't really get any downloads, so not sure there's much demand for this - but I use it with some shokz bone conducting headphones fo…

Any chance it could use seamless transport switching? It would be so awesome if it could switch to cellular(if available) or wifi-direct as needed on the fly. I have been thinking about creating such an app but lacked the time. If it's open source, I would love to help. I will give your app a try.

I'd stayed away from WiFi Direct because Android and iOS don't play nicely with it - but looks like the EU has forced Apple to support WiFi Aware in iOS 26. It still looks like it would require A LOT of manual pairing through the system UI if you join a group with new people though. I really wanted to keep the single password (or qr code scan/NFC tap) to join.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#167

Post by yetihehe »

t43562 wrote: post #165
yetihehe wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would you pay for sending messages? That's your centralization point. Alternatively if you allow "starting balance", how would you prevent from making a lot of accounts for spam sending?

You could have a way to earn credits which would allow your own messages to get sent. i.e. it wouldn't be about money. Ontop of that, I think payment isn't critical. You join the mesh because you want to use it yourself - all you need then is to limit how much power you're prepared to spend on it. What does it matter to you if 100 people use your phone or none? ....other than power. To put it another way, I think mon…

I think that money would only be used to send messages, as a way to prevent excessive spam. There needs to be some limitation. In whatsapp it's unique number or phones. Once you send too much spam from one number, it's burned. If you have anonymous network, how do you otherwise prevent from making new accounts for sending spam? If it is invite-only network, then it's pretty small problem.

I don't think relaying messages would require that much power and as you said, "You join the mesh because you want to use it yourself".

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#168

Post by hackpelican »

moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

How does routing work?

How do I know that for device A to reach device B, I need to go through device C but not D?

And if I try to go through device D but device C actually delivers the message, then does device D get paid? How would you validate which devices actually participated in the transmission of the message? How does this not turn into a privacy nightmare?

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#169

Post by 4gotunameagain »

hackpelican wrote: post #168
moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

How does routing work? How do I know that for device A to reach device B, I need to go through device C but not D? And if I try to go through device D but device C actually delivers the message, then does device D get paid? How would you validate which devices actually participated in the transmission of the message? How does this not turn into a privacy nightmare?

This is a problem solved multiple times in the past.

Look up "distributed peer to peer" e.g. kademlia

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#170

Post by hummuscience »

moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

Get Uber drivers/taxis, truck drivers, ups/amazon delivery people etc. As your relay devices (and gives them extra cash for driving around)
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