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OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

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Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#181
post #42

As a small software business owner, I have to agree with Michele Hansen (who spent 2 years advocating on behalf of small software businesses for this very change): "we’re finally going to get Section 174 relief, and I couldn’t be angrier" https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mjwhansen_it-looks-like-were-...

I disagree, every rider was independently lobbied for and the outcome would be the same if passed separately by Congress or as a rider in a larger bill like it was. There is no reason to have cognitive dissonance over it.

If you have a huge omnibus bill that has a good thing that the representative's constituents want, and then a mountain of burning trash attached to it, and the representative votes for the bill, they can defend the vote as getting the thing their constituents wanted.

If you make them each a different bill and then the constituents want to know why they voted in favor of the hot garbage by itself, how can they answer?

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#182
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last 10 years, have there been more than a handful of bills that got 60 votes in the senate? I wouldn't like what the current congress would do without the filibuster, but at this point a paralyzed system might be worse.

The answer is to vote out politicians. Getting ranked choice voting on your states ballot would go a long way to fixing this. They would not have Mamdani on the ballot for NY mayor if it wasn't for ranked choice voting. Certain politicans know this and have made RCV illegal in their state. Get RCV on the ballot for your state.

Score voting (or STAR) is better.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it means that indirectly, developers' salaries are not a taxable income in Canada if they are working on R&D? Meaning, they do pay taxes on their income, but their employer gets those taxes back, so if tax is 60%, the employer could pay 250% of what they'd pay otherwise, get 150% back, then the developer pays 150% of taxes, and gets 100%, so in effect the salary is tax-free. Is that what you meant to say? If so, i…

Canada's lack of startups is heavily cultural. We adopt new products less. We are far more risk averse about purchasing goods or services from startups, far more risk averse about funding them (founders often give personal guarantees to get the investment), value the equity startups offer at far less, etc. Government is far more fussy about accountability with that refundable R&D money, so lots of time is spent filli…

I don’t think this is uniquely Canadian. And it’s usually semi-rational, if you really hate dealing with switching. Most cheaper subscription providers will give you a good deal at first, then jack up the prices when they’re bought by a major provider. New cheaper providers are founded, and the cycle continues. The cheaper prices last for two or three years, or similarly short. Most people would rather take the loss than having to pay attention to this stuff.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#184

Oh, goody! Also, ICE has a bigger budget now than most of the world's militaries[1]. But let's not talk about that. [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-ice-bill-trump-2093456

An organization of goons who grab people off the street and disappear them to concentration camps? Why does that sound so familiar? Capitalists have always been involved in the rise of fascist movements.

>Why does that sound so familiar?

Probably because you've seen it repeated so much in your hyper-propaganda bubble of reddit that you've started to believe it

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An organization of goons who grab people off the street and disappear them to concentration camps? Why does that sound so familiar? Capitalists have always been involved in the rise of fascist movements.

>Why does that sound so familiar? Probably because you've seen it repeated so much in your hyper-propaganda bubble of reddit that you've started to believe it

I am Austrian. My entire education was dedicated to the rise of fascism and how it could happen and how to make sure it never happens again.

I know what I'm seeing.

Don't believe me? What about subject matter experts that decided to flee the country? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/opinion/yale-canada-fasci...

Or how about an excerpt from a book written based on post-WW2 interviews of Germans? Does any of that sound familiar at all? https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm

> They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’

[...]

> "But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#186
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores the other financial and non-financial costs of offshoring: legal, cultural, temporal... a lot of the time, those close the gap. On paper, offshoring has made sense the entire time, and yet here we are in 2025 and companies still hire American devs. Not only that, they often fly in foreign devs just to pay them more here than if they had just offshored to their home country.

I have approx. 15 years of experience working remotely for various companies all across the globe and was always an advocate of thesis that remote work is difficult and most people aren’t cut for it and (to horror of many proponents) and on average are less efficient than on-site hires. There are many reasons: It’s difficult to understand _intention_ when deprived of non-verbal communication and working in a choppy n…

From experience I think your 10% feels overly pessimistic. 30-40% feels more accurate, just like only about the same % that can survive an open plan or cubicle floor.

I see lots of people thriving in remote. Main reasons being a huge increase in quality of life. Regaining 2-3 hours of senseless commuting time per day, getting small household chores done over lunch, not having to schedule repair and maintainance appointments in the weekends etc. is huge.

Now I do agree it is not for everyone. I see especially younger people living alone not coping to well. Part of the reason is they (ab)used the office as a socializing place, and are not used to organizing a personal social life outside work. There's also people that don't actually have much work outside of attending office meetings, and nobody thrives sitting in Teams calls all day.

Then there's also real downsides. Some people living in shoebox appartments in the city just do not have the space. W While work can be done (more?) efficiently remote, but carreer climbing needs in person contact. It's like dating. Real dinner or a video call? No comparison.

Best of both worlds would be 0 commute time to a luxurious private office inside the company premises. All the rest will be tradeoffs and compromises either way.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#187
Is there a more bizarre legislative process anywhere in the world?

The US Congress is practically able to pass only a single giant bill every year. To work around its own deficit rules, these bills are packed with taxation time bombs where rules have expiration dates or delayed starts several years in the future.

Then, if Congress doesn’t get around to defusing its own time bombs, you get situations like this R&D expensing fiasco where American businesses and employees pay the price. Unless the bomb is hopefully retroactively cancelled, like happened now.

On top of this madness, there’s an executive branch operating like a runaway autocracy, producing a flood of executive orders that intentionally flaunt laws and even target specific private entities (e.g. Trump’s attacks on law firms that worked for his opponents, and universities he doesn’t like).

How long can a nation function like this? If the bond market loses faith in this process, there could be mayhem. Will be interesting to see if the passage of BBB impacts US debt when markets open again on Monday.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#188
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah people have been offshoring then onshoring once they realize offshoring sucks since at least the 90s. I remember my dad, who was also a software dev, complaining about it 20 years ago. It always swings back. The network effect in huge hubs like SF and NYC is massive.

100%. Most of the planet is cheaper than the US, and has been for decades. That being the case, how are there so many knowledge workers here still?

Hailing from an outsourcing destination I think I need to state the obvious: there exist IT jobs outside the US.

Americans have a... distinct work culture and companies - local and foreign - are not stupid, so nowadays they aim for the 50-75 percentile in terms of compensation.

On top of that you absolutely need to be fluent in English, which disqualifies half the candidates right off the bat.

All this combined makes it not obvious whether one would want to/could work for an American company - particularly if it's through various middlemen.

US used to be 100% worth it, but over the course of the last 25 years the ratio of GDPs per capita between USA and my country fell from 5.5 to around 3.75 and compensation naturally followed.

Lastly, the dollar fell 15% since the start of 2025 against my country's currency and that has had an effect on available openings.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#189
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores the other financial and non-financial costs of offshoring: legal, cultural, temporal... a lot of the time, those close the gap. On paper, offshoring has made sense the entire time, and yet here we are in 2025 and companies still hire American devs. Not only that, they often fly in foreign devs just to pay them more here than if they had just offshored to their home country.

Yeah people have been offshoring then onshoring once they realize offshoring sucks since at least the 90s. I remember my dad, who was also a software dev, complaining about it 20 years ago. It always swings back. The network effect in huge hubs like SF and NYC is massive.

I’ve been a part of the entire arc of offshored teams since the trend started in the late 90’s early 00’s. I’ve never seen it work. The primary issue is and always has been time zone related. While it doesn’t show to an accountant we do live on a sphere and there are implications to everyone. The solution is always to find some self contained effort for the remote centers but it never works because the entire company is pulling together and short of making the remote teams spin offs there’s no way to disentangle dependencies. And at some level even if you could management has to work cross regionally which isolates them from their center of power in the home office time zone. The root is the company is asking you to make immense personal sacrifice so they can save money if the model were to work. There is no upside to anyone other than the remote management in this situation so they burn out quickly and still fail because literally no one else in the company cares in any meaningful way. It’s unfair at its core and therefore fails.

The issues of quality and whatnot are at their core racist IMO but are made real because of the timezone issue. The norms and culture expected in the home time zones don’t translate easily and result in an impedance mismatch and a different measure of “good.” Because the remote team is isolated and unempowered they always struggle to adopt the standard of the team and to some extent can’t ever succeed in the quality space as it’ll be an ever shifting goalpost whose reasoning is effectively hidden. Then layer in the latent resentment on both sides and the whole situation is bound to fail, but the home teams have the advantage of being resident with the only management that matters.

I wish everyone involved would realize the experiment has failed. But CFOs are too powerful in most companies large enough to reasonably pull off outsourcing at all and the need for the CEO to please boards and investors who just operating off the financial statements and HBR white papers are too disconnected for why these efforts fail.

Unfortunately the current persecution of immigrants in the US will drive these arrangements more and more. Rather than on shoring local foreign talent with the collocated team, foreign talent will opt to avoid the fear society being birthed. This will lead to a strong incentive to follow talent to their home country leading to more imbalance in talent disoriented time zones. Maybe this would require everyone to figure out the above issues but I seriously doubt it. I think it’ll just make everyone less effective and not achieve anything positive for anyone.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#190

Oh, goody! Also, ICE has a bigger budget now than most of the world's militaries[1]. But let's not talk about that. [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-ice-bill-trump-2093456

That (initially) $175 billion/year will pay for itself in forced labor. I think most countries with large-scale systems of concentration camps converged on that solution, when the costs of those systems ballooned into something unsustainable.

Modern China has that. Their system makes use of their (reportedly millions) of incarcerated Uyghurs as low-skill forced labor, mainly in textiles/clothes. Few talk about it, but a significant fraction of Western clothing comes out of these camps.

The 1940's Germans were efficient: in extremis, they realized you could optimize value from concentration camps by starving the workers to death, extracting value from the final months of their lives with minimal operating costs. That was "extermination through labor".

Hacker News, being what it is, will be most focused on the impact on their 401k's. Their grandchildren will read these comments.

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