OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D • Hacker News Board

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#151

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:39 AM UTC

pfannkuchen wrote: post #73

xp84 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an overstuffed bill because nobody will compromise on anything so the only way to pass a bill that has anything even remotely controversial to either party is one reconciliation bill a year.

It seems like a more formalized quid pro quo system is needed so that political favors can be split across bills and relied upon. This sort of thing seems to be human nature, it doesn’t help anyone to pretend in the procedural rules that it doesn’t happen.

This was called pork when it used to happen and people were very angry about it.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#152

Post by jandrewrogers » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:41 AM UTC

tired-turtle wrote: post #142

nandomrumber wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know if you run a business (carry on an enterprise) the majority of the costs of doing business are tax deductible. That's another term subsidised . I'd argue fossil fuel industry subsidies are a net benefit to society as they help enable cheap reliable energy. Whereas renewable subsidies are a net negative because they don't. Everywhere more renewables have gone electricity has become more expensive and less…

> Everywhere more renewables have gone electricity has become more expensive and less reliable, completely antithetical to strong industrial development. Have you heard of Washington state? 75% renewable energy and 10th percentile for the cost per kWh.

Washington is a bit of a special case given that most of their electricity comes from vast hydroelectric resources constructed almost a century ago. That situation doesn’t generalize to other places. It is disingenuous to imply that this is an example relevant to modern energy policy.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#153

Post by archagon » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:49 AM UTC

Oh, goody!

Also, ICE has a bigger budget now than most of the world's militaries[1]. But let's not talk about that.

[1]: https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-ice-bill-trump-2093456

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#154

Post by charlieyu1 » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:50 AM UTC

This bill is so random. The poker world is going doom and gloom when BBB limits the amount of gambling loss deductibles to 90% of gambling wins.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#155

Post by forty » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 6:59 AM UTC

Galanwe wrote: post #133

ttul wrote: post #84

Meanwhile, in Canada, not only can you expense R&D, but there is a cashable tax refund that will give you back about 60% of your developers’ salaries…

There is something similar in France, the Crédit Impôts Recherche (CIR), I remember it was around 50%. I've heard it's going to disappear though, there were abuses.

"There are abuses" is really an understatement. "It's mostly abuse and there might be some legitimate beneficiaries" would be more correct.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#156

Post by whatshisface » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:04 AM UTC

me551ah wrote: post #134

I doubt if this will make much difference. Offshoring as a tactic emerged in the pandemic when companies realised that being “remote” works just as well. Sure, foreign R&D still gets amortized over 15 years (NPV ≈59 % of a full write-off, so you “lose” ~8.6 % of your R&D spend in present-value terms, and only 6.7 % of the cost is deductible in year 1, creating a 19.6 % cash-tax gap). But offshore wages are often 50–7…

It's not possible, really, to believe that markets are inefficient enough to pay twice the price for something in one place as another...

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#157

Post by ozgrakkurt » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:05 AM UTC

me551ah wrote: post #134

I doubt if this will make much difference. Offshoring as a tactic emerged in the pandemic when companies realised that being “remote” works just as well. Sure, foreign R&D still gets amortized over 15 years (NPV ≈59 % of a full write-off, so you “lose” ~8.6 % of your R&D spend in present-value terms, and only 6.7 % of the cost is deductible in year 1, creating a 19.6 % cash-tax gap). But offshore wages are often 50–7…

It is delusional to think you get same quality work for 70% less price.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#158

Post by whatshisface » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:06 AM UTC

sMarsIntruder wrote: post #118

ttul wrote: post #84

Meanwhile, in Canada, not only can you expense R&D, but there is a cashable tax refund that will give you back about 60% of your developers’ salaries…

I hate to see this, but you’re comparing two completely different systems. Like it or not, but Canada is much more “socialist”, you can’t expect it in any case to be like US or viceversa.

I saw a chart that added the market value of government support to income for US persons, and it used the term "household resources." I'd like to see a table of household resource distributions for Canada and the US.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#159

Post by CraigJPerry » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:07 AM UTC

Could this transfer enough money to mint a person as the first trillionaire?

Econ 101: A government deficit increases the net financial worth of the private sector.

The US usually increases the net financial worth of the private sector by around $2tn per year, OBBB should move that to around $3tn per year (CBO estimate https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61486)

If you accumulate a dollar per second in net worth, then you become:

  A millionaire in 11 days
  A billionaire in 32 years
  A trillionaire in 32,000 years

Obviously an indiscriminate increase in money without a corresponding increase in output will show up in inflation.

So it's a wealth transfer, from those whose financial affairs will remain comparatively static (your dollar will be worth less via inflation) to those who can capture the new money streams.

Re: OBBB signed: Reinstates immediate expensing for U.S.-based R&D

#160

Post by saubeidl » Sat, Jul 05, 2025, 7:16 AM UTC

sp527 wrote: post #104

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #91

The elimination of green energy incentives is going to have a big negative effect on the economy. Those billions of dollars not only were going to new businesses and jobs, but they were joined with loans from banks and commitments from customers with the expectation that the government would be funding the remainder. This means private industry and banks will be shouldering the loss of hundreds of billions of dollars…

Any green energy project that isn't nuclear is a waste of money and resources. Nuclear is now being pursued in earnest by the tech industry itself. There's no problem here.

Nuclear is by far more expensive than other green options.