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What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#221

Post by bigiain »

fosap wrote: post #150
kahirsch wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually, purchasing stolen goods is illegal in most places, full stop. In my state, the statute says "such person knowing or having reasonable grounds to believe the same to have been feloniously stolen or taken". I doubt any state makes receiving stolen goods in complete ignorance a crime. However, the stolen goods are generally recoverable by the original owner, whether or not the person receiving them purchased…

>However, the stolen goods are generally recoverable by the original owner, whether or not the person receiving them purchased them in good faith. This is good. Usually there is just a demand for bikes. With this system there will be a demand for non-stolen bikes. The prices for stolen bikes go down and so does stealing them.

As usual, it's probably more complicated than that…

I wonder how much the "market price" for 2nd hand bikes is driven by the large(?) volume of stolen bikes in the market? Are legitimate bike sellers being forced into selling at lower-then-desired price points by a glut of stolen bikes being offered for 15 or 20% below "current prices", perhaps over time settling on unrealistically low market expectations? I wonder how big a percentage of the total demand for 2nd hand bikes is being met by the supply of stolen bikes? And what the effect of removing the stolen portion of the supply would be on the market price?

It's possible that if you raised barriers against selling stolen bikes, the prices of legitimate 2nd hand bike would rise, creating a "gap" where the time and money customizing/disguising stolen bikes became worthwhile.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#222

Post by roguecoder »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #76

There is a bike seller in Manhattan who uses an interesting system in reselling his (more than likely) stolen bikes. Once a buyer contacts him via craigslist, he finds out the persons general vicinity, brings the bike to the area and locks it up with a combo lock based chain. He will give you the address of the bike, and if you like it, can make the purchase online and you receive the combination. If you don't want i…

If the risk of theft weren't so high that would be a pretty cool way to do a zipcar-style bike service.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#223

Post by jarek »

WalterBright wrote: post #103

My bike is a nice 10 speed I bought 35 years ago. It still works fine, is an excellent bike, and is worth maybe $25. I doubt it's worth stealing.

Every bike is worth stealing, unfortunately. I had beater bikes stolen, one had duct tape on the rims, another one with visibly busted rear brake. I probably couldn't have sold them if I tried to; but then I don't sell to sketchy characters for $10 or part of a hit.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#225

Post by ericd »

juan_juarez wrote: post #210
Jun8 wrote: post #55

I think a useful tactic to curb loss of expensive bikes would be to legally target the people who buy them, these are the people that cause the market to exist and perpetuate the situation. My guess is that most of these people are not crooks, i.e. they are just young people who want to but can't afford a nice bike and they know exactly what they are buying. I don't understand anything about bikes so can't give an ex…

> Tangentially, and pardon my ignorance, I'm not a biker: I can't understand people who shell out thousands of dollars for a bike, are these so much better than a $500 one? Think about one thing you're passionate about. There's going to be products that are good enough for the casual, every-day user and there's going to be premium goods, even if there's a decreasing price/performance ratio. Since we're on HN, I feel…

Well, given the amount I will use that computer over the 2 years I have it and the disruption to flow that processing pauses cause, a ~10% increase in performance might be worth the premium. I imagine there's similar logic for bikes. But you're right, sometimes people just want to show off.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#226

Post by stan_rogers »

kahirsch wrote: post #120
mseebach wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, purchasing stolen goods is illegal in most places, full stop. The reason is that it's practically impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what somebody did or didn't know, and when. The BikeID idea is about as old as bike theft, but it's pretty difficult to enforce. If you care enough about not buying a stolen bike, the solution is simple: Ask for the original invoice. If not, you're not going to both…

> Actually, purchasing stolen goods is illegal in most places, full stop. In my state, the statute says "such person knowing or having reasonable grounds to believe the same to have been feloniously stolen or taken". I doubt any state makes receiving stolen goods in complete ignorance a crime. However, the stolen goods are generally recoverable by the original owner, whether or not the person receiving them purchased…

And the "reasonable" is in regard to the legal reasonable person, not to the individual in question, so "I just thought it sounded like a really good deal" isn't really a defence (that's how we spell it here) unless you had equally reasonable grounds to believe that the deal was square. If there's one really cheap bike at what appears to be a yard sale, you're probably okay, but if there are ten of them, well, you're legally expected to be at least a little suspicious.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#227

Post by bigiain »

dmm wrote: post #185
Cass wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US already proportionally has the most prisoners out of any country in the world, and I'm wary of any solution that includes making that problem worse. That kind of thing has giant socioeconomic costs and, looking at the crime rates, doesn't seem to work at making the country safer. I just don't think that finding yet another reason to put a whole bunch of people in prison (average cost per month between $2000 an…

The US also has a lot of crime. More people need to be in prison.

Surely that's an over simplistic view?

The real answer to your first sentence is clearly "people need to commit less crime". I would suggest there's a lot of evidence showing that the threat of prison isn't deterring crime at least amongst some demographics. Do you really think greater risk of prison is going to stop bike theft by crackheads? Or homeless? Or the poor?

It's quite possible that fixing some of the social problems would be a way more powerful motivator to stop bike theft then increasing enforcement/punishment alone. Possibly way more cost effective too.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#228

Post by stan_rogers »

happimess wrote: post #156
zurn wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the department store bikes are garbage, but you can get a perfectly good brand name basic city bike for well under $1000. Bikes mass is marginal compared to your body weight especially if you're average weight. A basic bike is 34 lbs and you are 175 lbs. And the weight only makes a big difference when climbing hills. You're much better off losing a few pounds of fat than spending a few grand to get 10 lbs off t…

You're right about the difference that lowering your body mass makes. It's the easiest way to drop the weight that you have to pedal around. I have a cyclist friend who loves to claim "I just took a $1000 shit," the joke being that that's how much it would cost him to get a $poop_mass lighter bicycle. However, this doesn't apply to racers. If it's going to speed someone up by 2%, and he's got the money, and he wants…

Heck, if it's going to speed him up enough to make a 50m difference over a 200km road race, it's worth the price to an actual racer. (And there will probably considerable time spent tweaking even the best of things to perfection before each race.) But they are so very, very few in number, even if it's sometimes hard to tell when you pass that one local cafe that is populated exclusively by spandex-wearing, logo-encrusted latte drinkers who gather to talk about their bikes.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#229

Post by rickmb »

dimitar wrote: post #201
Someone wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Vancouver or even on the new continent, but http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=h... shows an arrest from the Dutch supreme court on bait bicycles ("lokfietsen") that shows the method gets used.

The Netherlands seems to be a good place look if there are any solutions - they have a huge percentage of people using bicycles in their cities.

And we have a huge bike theft issue that's been going on for decades. Keep looking...

Seriously, the only things that have somewhat alleviated the problem is better locks and guarded bike parking facilities.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#230

Post by grogenaut »

Retric wrote: post #109
enraged_camel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you tell if a bike you are buying is stolen? It would be pretty easy for a bike thief to post an ad on Craigslist saying they are selling their used bike. >>Tangentially, and pardon my ignorance, I'm not a biker: I can't understand people who shell out thousands of dollars for a bike, are these so much better than a $500 one? It makes a huge difference. More expensive bikes are built from lighter and stronger…

I would argue it's often more about falling into the same trap as 'audiophiles' as it is about direct benefits. Few people notice the added weight from drinking 2lb of water but people spend hundreds of dollars shaving 1/10th of that from their bike.

For me the price isn't about the weight, it's about me commuting in a city with huge hills, rain, and long flat stretches. My commute goes up and down several 300ft hills and across a long bridge (Seattle to Bellevue). So I end up riding a road bike with a large gear range and disc brakes. This isn't easy to setup, and my components cost more than the frame. When you commute every day 45 minutes each way, it also makes sense to spend some money on comfort (I mean that's 400 hours a year you are on the bike). Most people do it when they buy cars, it's the same think.
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